[psi20]

Would you agree or disagree to this?

Lonely people (meaning people who wished they were more friend to others/respected/loved/cared for/ etc. by others as opposed to those who wish to be alone) tend to push people away.

Why would you agree or disagree? Would you call this a sub-conscious trigger like getting a sore throat an hour before singing auditions?

[atinymonkey]

I would disagree. Lethargic, maybe, but not actively shunning human contact.

[YT2095]

you`de also have to factor in Causation of lonliness, if someone`s obnoxious and has no friends etc.. then there`s the cause and it`ll have the correct outcome respectively.
there`s also the "Self fulfilling profecy(sp)" sort, where someone may feel lonely and without friends, and beleive they are the cause and therefore not worthy, and so don`t bother, thus re-afirming their beleif.
sometime just circumstaces through no fault of their own can lead to lonlines (your Boss sends you on a 6 month expedition to the Antartic!).

the sort you outlined is just ONE of many causes and reactions :)

[coquina]

I was married for 31 years, my husband and I worked together and played together. (And fought together, and argued with one another - it was a far from perfect marriage.)

He was an only child, and so was I. I have a daughter from a previous marriage who lives 200 miles away. I have a grandson and an ex-son-in-law who live close by. My dad died in 1997, my mom died in 2003.

I woke up on the morning of August 18, 2002, and my husband was dead. His eyes were open, his glasses were on, his feet were crossed at the ankles, and the TV remote had slipped from his fingers and was on the bed beside him. He looked like someone had just thrown a switch and turned him off.

That day, I started being lonely - the quiet nearly killed me. When Butch was around, there was always a commotion around him. He was noisy and boistrous, and never did anything quietly (except to die). He had installed "surround sound" in our motorhome (we lived there full time) - he loved action movies and the noise was deafening.

At least at that point, I had my mom. She was 95, and her body was giving out, but she had her wits. I started spending the evenings with her. Then, she broke her hip, got a staph infection and died from blood poisoning in Feb. 2003. So now, I am really alone, and often times, I am really lonely.

Sure - I have a lot of friends. I am around my employees during the day, and I go out some evenings, but - by and large, I am alone. (Or at the computer with you guys or another forum I participate in for the "involuntarily unspoused") I sing in the church choir - and really enjoy the company of the other choir members.

It's weird, the things you miss - Butch loved food and dinner was a big production with us. It's terribly lonely to cook for one and then sit down and eat alone. (Except for the cat, who begs incessantly). It's even worse when you go out to eat, and the waiter asks if someone will be joining you and you have to say, "No - I'm alone."

I have an arthritic back - Butch used to rub it for me every morning and evening - now I have one of those back massage cushions, but it's no comparison to human touch.

I use his side of the bed for storage, just so I won't see it empty. I went through closets and drawers over the Christmas holidays, and found his wallet, his shaver, his camera, his darts. Don't know what to do with that stuff, don't want to throw it out, don't want to look at it.

So - for company I have an exhuberant black lab, with whom I walk several miles a day, and a 18-1/2 year old geriatric cat.

I don't think I "tend to push people away", but I am certainly careful around them. The last time I dated, I was 17. For my whole entire life, I have been "somebody's daughter" or "somebody's wife". I have never lived alone before, and I don't even know who "I" am. I do think before I can start dating or consider remarrying, I have to find that out.

What I will say to you all - is to treasure the time you have with your spouse or significant other, and "don't sweat the small stuff". When it comes right down to it - most of it is "small stuff".

[YT2095]

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What I will say to you all - is to treasure the time you have with your spouse or significant other, and "don't sweat the small stuff". When it comes right down to it - most of it is "small stuff".

I have that book too, Richard Carlson PH.D.

it`s a great little book, and I`ve read it a few times, often because I forget some of it and need a Re-Think :)
pages:L 45, 81, 121, 131,139165, 183 (but that can be tough!), 191 certainly!, 203 if all else fails:))

Be well :)

[coquina]

I didn't know about the book - I have, of course, heard the phrase.

I just checked it out online - looks like a useful one to add to my library.

[Coral Rhedd]

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Lonely people . . . tend to push people away.

Would you clarify this part? Do you mean deliberately or as a consequence of their behavior?

[Coral Rhedd]

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I have never lived alone before, and I don't even know who "I" am.

You can know this: You are someone who can write eloquently about her losses. You are someone who doesn't give up. You are someone whose posts I can very much enjoy reading.

[Glider]

Coral Rhedd said:

Would you clarify this part? Do you mean deliberately or as a consequence of their behavior?

Lonely people tend to be so for a number of reasons. Simply being obnoxious aside, they could be introspective by nature, or shy, or depressed. In any of these cases, it means the person is less likely to initiate contact and will wait for contact to happen.

In extreme cases, if they have been alone for some time, when contact does occur, they tend to handle it poorly, not having a great deal of social experience to guide them. This doesn't mean they don't want contact. There is a difference between being alone and being lonely.

In some cases, after repeated bad experiences, they will simply give up and resign themselves to being alone. This is tragic, especially as most other people tend to regard such individuals as 'saddos', when in fact they are painfully aware of how empty their lives are, but simply lack the means to do anything about it. It is extremely sad (in the traditional sense).

[coquina]

Thanks for the "atta girl".

[Coral Rhedd]

Wow Glider, your description of lonely people sounds so grim.

I suppose I am rather odd, but I have rarely been lonely, so it was a great surprise to me how poorly I handled it when my daughter graduated high school and moved away. I went from being mildly down to seriously depressed in a matter of a couple of months. It seems I can be lonely for a specific person but am rarely lonely in general.

I confess that I am an introvert and can easily entertain myself on my own for a long time, but when I need company, I just call someone up. I noticed that when I was so very depressed however that I just wanted to be alone. I prefered to wallow in my misery.

I suppose there is such a thing as people who are terribly lonely in an "Eleanor Rigby" type way. How can they break that cycle? Is it caused by poor self-esteem?

Coral

[ecoli]

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Lonely people (meaning people who wished they were more friend to others/respected/loved/cared for/ etc. by others as opposed to those who wish to be alone) tend to push people away.

I say you would have to look at each case individually...everyone is different and not everyone is lonely for the same reason. But this certainly could be true in many cases.

Coquina - that was a beautiful post (#4). It made me well up.

[coquina]

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I confess that I am an introvert and can easily entertain myself on my own for a long time, but when I need company, I just call someone up. I noticed that when I was so very depressed however that I just wanted to be alone. I prefered to wallow in my misery.

I always said that about myself, and to a large extent it is true. I think with me the biggest problem was the sudden shock of it all. For years, Butch and I boated, to the exclusion of anything else. I used to enjoy doing artwork, I painted and carved wood. I also used to be heavily involved in music, I played flute and piccolo. I would tell myself, during those busy years, that if I only had time, I would enjoy doing those things again.

I did keep the boat - a 32' powerboat, and I am in the process of refurbishing her. I have a macabre sense of humor - the first thing I did was to use some of Butch's insurance money for a state of the art marine toilet and sanitation system, which uses the chroride to make its own chlorine sewage treatment. I put a sign over the head door ..." In memory of Butch, who wouldn't take $hit off of anyone."

Suddenly, I found myself with the time, so I called my own bluff. I dug my flute out of storage and started practicing again. I haven't gone back to painting, but I am learning photoshop. I am enjoying restoring old damaged photographs. I have learned how to "make art" by scanning 3d items. Seashells, feathers, flowers, you would be amazed the neat effects you can obtain.

Exercise helps me fight depression more than anything else... together with knowing that my problems are inconveniences compared to those of people in many parts of the world who go to bed hungry every night. I am especially mindfull of those people lost to the recent tsunami - all of them have families, who are at present in numbness and shock, and who will really begin to deal with their grief weeks or months later, when the dreadful occurances are able to penetrate.

What I do know is that many things can cause lonliness, and I am far more likely to offer a smile or speak to a stranger. There is an old saying - "If you see someone without a smile, give them one of yours." Try it - you will be absolutely amazed at how many people will smile back. You have to fight your way out, and it is not easy. However - it is worth it.

[ChienShiungW]

I don't know if this helps but sometimes I am in a bad mood and I don't cheer up easily except when I am around other people and interact with them, but I don't want to yet at the same time I want to be around people. Then if I do what I want and stay by myself, it is kind of like a cycle of some kind of somewhat depressed mood feeding itself on my isolation. When for some reason I break it and go interact with people, I feel much more cheerful and social. I don't know if that helps at all though.

[Glider]

Coral Rhedd said:

Wow Glider, your description of lonely people sounds so grim.

Yes, I suppose so, but then being lonely is grim.

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I suppose I am rather odd, but I have rarely been lonely, so it was a great surprise to me how poorly I handled it when my daughter graduated high school and moved away. I went from being mildly down to seriously depressed in a matter of a couple of months. It seems I can be lonely for a specific person but am rarely lonely in general.

Missing an individual is akin to lonliness, but it's actually closer to grieving, In these cases, people suffer through the loss of a particular person. People don't have to die for others to suffer from their leaving. People who are grieving can seek social support from others (e.g. friends). Lonely people have no such resource and grieve alone.

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I confess that I am an introvert and can easily entertain myself on my own for a long time, but when I need company, I just call someone up. I noticed that when I was so very depressed however that I just wanted to be alone. I prefered to wallow in my misery.

Being alone is one thing. Many people can be quite happy that way. Being lonely is feeling the need for social contact, but lacking the means to achieve it. Lonliness is often associated with depression. It's a bit 'chicken & egg' though. Depression can lead to social isolation as easily as social isolation can lead to depression.

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I suppose there is such a thing as people who are terribly lonely in an "Eleanor Rigby" type way. How can they break that cycle? Is it caused by poor self-esteem?

Coral

Self esteem is a factor, but again, it's a 'chicken & egg' thing. A poor self-esteem can contribute to social isolation in a "I'm crap. Why would anyone want to be with me?" kind of way, but then equally, social isolation can erode one's self-esteem in a "Nobody wants to be with me; I must be crap" kind of way.

Lonely people often do less well in life because their basic outlook is different. For example, people with large social support networks tend to be more confident and can take greater life risks (which in terms of career choices, often pay off). They have constant reinforcement of their worth, and they know that if they stumble, they'll never hit the ground; their friends/family will catch them.

On the other hand, lonely people have no reinforcement of their worth and as a consequence, tend to be less confident. They are less likely to take risks and 'go' for things they want, because they know that if they stumble, they will hit the ground and they will have to pick themselves up on their own. They assess potential problems and hurdles by their own personal capacity to deal with them, because they don't expect help. They also tend to avoid risks beyond their percieved capacity to cope with failure, because they know they will have to deal with it alone. There is no-one at home to make it all better.

It's one of the hardest cycles to break. Going out to social events/environments doesn't usually help, because lonely people know that a social crowd is one of the most isolating places to be. They become invisible; everyone else there is focussed on their own social group/partner and the individual just fades into the background. Compound this with the contrast; so many people interacting with so many others, watched by a person who may not say a single word, or have a single word spoken to them all night. It throws their own situation into sharp relief, which can often be quite distressing. So, after a while, they tend to avoid such situations. And so it goes on.

[coquina]

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It's one of the hardest cycles to break. Going out to social events/environments doesn't usually help, because lonely people know that a social crowd is one of the most isolating places to be. They become invisible; everyone else there is focussed on their own social group/partner and the individual just fades into the background. Compound this with the contrast; so many people interacting with so many others, watched by a person who may not say a single word, or have a single word spoken to them all night. It throws their own situation into sharp relief, which can often be quite distressing. So, after a while, they tend to avoid such situations. And so it goes on.

A guy who teaches Dale Carnagie told me that the best way to avoid walking into a situation where everyone is already in a conversation is to get there early. Then, as people come in, you smile at them and they are far more likely to come over and start a conversation rather than stand around by themselves.

[Glider]

That's true. However, it takes a lot of confidence to turn up somewhere early, without the anonymity of a crowd, and to smile at strangers.

[YT2095]

Confidence or just consider them all as people just like you are with their own worries and hang ups, faults and frailties just the same as yourself :)

it works for ME anyway.

[Glider]

It works for me too, but not for lonely people, or shy, introverted people.

[Vladimir]

It would seem to me that coquina, you need how do you amereekan call it, closure. As horrible as it may sound you need to move on.
How did your husband die if i may ask?
You obviously shouldnt forget about him completely or shut off that part of you at all, but it is important that you dont let somebody control your life. Many depressed people become lazy or shut off, but your tendancy to keep yourself active and to socialize yet still retain loneliness at home would seem that the problem is nothing except for the dread of coming home. I'd recomend seeing a pschiatrist just too sort things out. I dont know how you feel, but where i come form i know that there's alot of social stigma attached to seeing a pschiatrist, but if i understand correctly (i hope i do) its alot easier in amereeka.

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Would you agree or disagree to this?

Lonely people (meaning people who wished they were more friend to others/respected/loved/cared for/ etc. by others as opposed to those who wish to be alone) tend to push people away.

Why would you agree or disagree? Would you call this a sub-conscious trigger like getting a sore throat an hour before singing auditions?

I wouldnt say push them away subconsious or not if they desire to be socially active, lonely people tend to vent their feelings in other ways through. Most lonely people find themselves defensive and do often see threats when there are none.