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Heads up on suicide


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#1 Popcorn Sutton

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Posted 7 March 2013 - 10:59 PM

Throughout my life I've known people who have either commit suicide or have tried several times. They all have something in common, there is always a brother and a sister. We might need to give people the heads up on potential experiences that have side effects as well.
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#2 ydoaPs

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Posted 8 March 2013 - 12:21 AM

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moved to speculations


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#3 elfmotat

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Posted 8 March 2013 - 01:13 AM

I have one brother and one sister as well. And I've never attempted suicide, nor has the thought ever crossed my mind.


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#4 Popcorn Sutton

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Posted 8 March 2013 - 01:18 AM

All cases I know are between two siblings and only two siblings. None of them had any other siblings. Just one sibling of the opposite gender.
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I want you guys to understand that my responses are prompted, they are not my choice. -myself

My greatest gift to mankind!
"A complex list of no interest [and astronomical size. There's no use contemplating it.]" -Noam Chomsky

"[Most people look at some research and say 'I don't understand it'. When they see it again, they say 'I already saw this.']" - Lawrence Krauss

"Philosophers are not generally suppose to let their philosophy be known" - Genecks

#5 elfmotat

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Posted 8 March 2013 - 01:28 AM

This is one of the dumbest, most offensive threads I've ever had the displeasure of reading.


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\mathcal{Z}=\int \mathcal{D} \varphi \, e^{i \mathcal{S}}


#6 Popcorn Sutton

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Posted 8 March 2013 - 01:33 AM

I'm sorry it impacted you that way, I'm just describing the regularity I've noticed.
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I want you guys to understand that my responses are prompted, they are not my choice. -myself

My greatest gift to mankind!
"A complex list of no interest [and astronomical size. There's no use contemplating it.]" -Noam Chomsky

"[Most people look at some research and say 'I don't understand it'. When they see it again, they say 'I already saw this.']" - Lawrence Krauss

"Philosophers are not generally suppose to let their philosophy be known" - Genecks

#7 Bignose

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Posted 8 March 2013 - 03:17 AM

I'm sorry it impacted you that way, I'm just describing the regularity I've noticed.

But... really?!?! Just because you have a few anecdotes, you automatically assume it true for everyone? You really can't Google and find literally thousands of people posting their story about only children committing suicide?!? (sadly, often the parents.)

This is just lazy. And I agree with the above, offensive. If you truly cared, you would have put 7 seconds of research into showing your idea is bunk.

Edited by Bignose, 8 March 2013 - 03:18 AM.

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#8 CaptainPanic

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Posted 8 March 2013 - 10:11 AM

Popcorn, the problem people have here is that you have a couple of examples.... and that is not enough to extrapolate that to a general rule.

 

It might be just coincidence. And there are methods - using statistics - to prove that it is not just coincidence. The best method is to take a MUCH larger sample, meaning you look at many many more suicides, and see if in all those cases siblings play any role. We're not talking 10 more, but we're talking hundreds to thousands before this becomes statistically significant.

 

But your "theory" has another problem. The large majority of people have siblings. So, it is extremely likely that someone who commits suicide also has siblings. This link says that 80% of Americans (pdf warning) have at least one sibling.

It is like saying: "all cases of suicide or attempted suicide was by people who were breathing air containing oxygen". It's true, but it's a pretty useless remark.


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#9 Popcorn Sutton

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Posted 8 March 2013 - 02:03 PM

You know, another interesting fact is that everyone who has commit suicide, in fact everyone who has died, has also drank water.

I'm just throwing out a bit of information that other people might be able to work with, not that my personal research actually involves topics such as these.

But it really kills me when I hear these things. I can barely hold back tears.
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I want you guys to understand that my responses are prompted, they are not my choice. -myself

My greatest gift to mankind!
"A complex list of no interest [and astronomical size. There's no use contemplating it.]" -Noam Chomsky

"[Most people look at some research and say 'I don't understand it'. When they see it again, they say 'I already saw this.']" - Lawrence Krauss

"Philosophers are not generally suppose to let their philosophy be known" - Genecks

#10 swansont

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Posted 8 March 2013 - 03:02 PM

I'm sorry it impacted you that way, I'm just describing the regularity I've noticed.

 

The plural of anecdotes is not evidence.


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#11 Consistency

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Posted 8 March 2013 - 10:40 PM

You know, another interesting fact is that everyone who has commit suicide, in fact everyone who has died, has also drank water.

 

lol

 

Were these people who killed themselves all poor or close to poor? Were they all males or females?


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#12 Popcorn Sutton

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Posted 8 March 2013 - 10:44 PM

They've all been males and the behavior started around the age of 13. There was almost certainly sexual activity between the siblings. In one case that I know, the family caught them in the act.

It has ranged across social class. All cases that I know of are local.
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I want you guys to understand that my responses are prompted, they are not my choice. -myself

My greatest gift to mankind!
"A complex list of no interest [and astronomical size. There's no use contemplating it.]" -Noam Chomsky

"[Most people look at some research and say 'I don't understand it'. When they see it again, they say 'I already saw this.']" - Lawrence Krauss

"Philosophers are not generally suppose to let their philosophy be known" - Genecks

#13 Consistency

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Posted 8 March 2013 - 11:20 PM

They've all been males and the behavior started around the age of 13. There was almost certainly sexual activity between the siblings. In one case that I know, the family caught them in the act.

It has ranged across social class. All cases that I know of are local.

 

lol sounds like you're making it up as you go....

You're saying that the older sister manipulated the younger bro into sex.

 

The shame could drive someone to kill themselves.


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#14 Popcorn Sutton

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Posted 8 March 2013 - 11:38 PM

Older brother, younger sister.

And thats every case that I know of.

But I'm also a boy.

So it may work the other way around too
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I want you guys to understand that my responses are prompted, they are not my choice. -myself

My greatest gift to mankind!
"A complex list of no interest [and astronomical size. There's no use contemplating it.]" -Noam Chomsky

"[Most people look at some research and say 'I don't understand it'. When they see it again, they say 'I already saw this.']" - Lawrence Krauss

"Philosophers are not generally suppose to let their philosophy be known" - Genecks

#15 ydoaPs

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Posted 9 March 2013 - 08:31 PM

!

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Off-topic speculative nonsense split from on-topic speculative nonsense.


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"Our integrity sells for so little, but it is all we really have. It is the very last inch of us. But within that inch we are free."-Valerie(V for Vendetta)

"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love and whiskey."-Carl Sagan[revised]
 
"The universe is under no obligation to us not to be absurd."

#16 Ophiolite

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 01:49 PM

I'm just throwing out a bit of information that other people might be able to work with,

That's what people are objecting to. You are just throwing it out without the care and attention that the subject deserves. Elsewhere you have the audacity to describe these casual observations of events as research. So not only have you offended people who may have lost loved ones, you have offended science.

 

I suspect you are a pretty decent person, intelligent, well meaning and inquisitive, but why not make the decision today to start using that intelligence. It won't be too painful.


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I waited and waited for a response to my post and when none came I knew it must be from you.


#17 Popcorn Sutton

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 03:53 PM

Well, for topics involving psychology and methods of psychiatry, I'm inclined to make a statement because it is within the realm of my reality. I can't stand to hear stories of people attempting or committing suicide. It breaks my heart. If I can do anything to help people understand this behavior, then the risk of putting myself out there is far less than the benefit it may have. Maybe its not research, and if you don't want me to call it that then fine. My research involves other things, and to me, there seems to be a pragmatic regularity in all cases that I know. This is why I suggested that we put disclaimers on the possible side effects of experiences. You blow up at a mcdonalds and start screaming obscenities because they havent given you your drink, then you might have anxiety associated with that event that lingers for a while. Same goes for other experiences, some of which may literally cause you to want to die. The context that one is exposed to is probably not reducible to chemicals or chemical imbalances (unless the chemicals equate to the knowledge of the experience). And causing a stroke may seem to have beneficial therapeutic effects, but by doing so, you are putting their life in danger. Even if they don't realize they had a stroke, they may have had a series of minor strokes (which seems to be the case with anti depressants).

Again, I'm no expert in psychiatry, but I have studied the brain extensively, and I have made computational models that, I think, replicate neural processes very well. The point is that behavior can be prompted with the right input.
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I want you guys to understand that my responses are prompted, they are not my choice. -myself

My greatest gift to mankind!
"A complex list of no interest [and astronomical size. There's no use contemplating it.]" -Noam Chomsky

"[Most people look at some research and say 'I don't understand it'. When they see it again, they say 'I already saw this.']" - Lawrence Krauss

"Philosophers are not generally suppose to let their philosophy be known" - Genecks

#18 John Cuthber

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 03:57 PM

Popcorn,

Check this 

http://en.wikipedia....nfirmation_bias


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#19 Popcorn Sutton

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 03:59 PM

I do also believe that your previous post was fallacious, and if it were up to me, I wouldn't use fallacies. And I don't like having to point them out, so please, make sure youre not being fallacious before you post.

Popcorn,
Check this 
http://en.wikipedia....nfirmation_bias


Thanks for refining my ontology. I really appreciate this community.
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I want you guys to understand that my responses are prompted, they are not my choice. -myself

My greatest gift to mankind!
"A complex list of no interest [and astronomical size. There's no use contemplating it.]" -Noam Chomsky

"[Most people look at some research and say 'I don't understand it'. When they see it again, they say 'I already saw this.']" - Lawrence Krauss

"Philosophers are not generally suppose to let their philosophy be known" - Genecks

#20 John Cuthber

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 04:37 PM

I do also believe that your previous post was fallacious, and if it were up to me, I wouldn't use fallacies. And I don't like having to point them out, so please, make sure youre not being fallacious before you post.


Thanks for refining my ontology. I really appreciate this community.

Two problems.
What previous post?, and what fallacy?
It's not enough to say that something is wrong, you have to explain what is wrong and why.


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