42 replies to this topic

[Popcorn Sutton]

If I am going to be an activist against anything, it is the way psychiatry and psychology is conducted. What you guys do is so (insert adverb) wrong that I can safely say that it is the most disturbing thing I have ever encountered in my entire existence. You guys should lay down your "weapons" and seriously step away from what it is that you are doing. If you have any sense of sympathy within your soul, you will step away and actively try to change the system even if it costs you your job, your credit, or your house, I'm sure there are plenty of people who will support you in your decision and lend a helping hand knowing that you did it for what is in humanities best interest.

 

This is the way the system should be conducted:

1. There are no patients.

2. The problems people have are our problems not theirs.

3. Make drugs legal and make people aware of what is likely to occur with use

4. Always give us evidence (use a lot of statistics and citations) when suggesting about medication.

5. Make no prescriptions. Prescriptions are known cross ontologically to be restrictive and even damaging at times.

6. Never (and I can't stress this enough) Never make people take medication. (without a trial)

7. If the family is involved, the family has to take it up with the court first.

 

There is obviously a line that has to be drawn right through the middle of this field where on one side, the justice system is involved, and on the other side are the ones seeking treatment.

Edited by Popcorn Sutton, 22 February 2013 - 10:14 PM.

[iNow]

You're painting with a very broad brush, and unfortunately your generalizations fail. There are so many different styles of clinical psychology and psychiatry and so many different practitioners that it's ludicrous to think your criticisms somehow apply equally to all.

Also, clinical psychologists cannot prescribe medications because they are not MDs. Only psychiatrists can do that.

[Popcorn Sutton]

stop prescribing any uptake inhibitors without a trial. If I want to get anything across it's that.

[LowWattBulb]

Sure, Popcorn, they'll get right on that. Maybe you should go to college, then medical school, then do a psychiatric residency, then come back with your demands. 

[Ringer]

The best thing is that Clinical is a very small field when looking at all of psychology. It would be like me posting in the Biology forum about how I biologists are evil because I had a bad experience with a doctor.

Also, do you actually know the practices of Clinical psychologists, the medications, etc. or are you just making judgments based on anecdotal evidence?

[iNow]

Maybe some negative personal experiences?

[Popcorn Sutton]

If you block the uptake, theres no place for the fluid to go, pressure builds up, and you have a stroke. You don't need a PhD to see the logic behind that. The part that disturbs me most is that the ones being treated who refuse to take their meds are forced to take them. What happened to our rights? It's ridiculous. This is a known side effect of the medication. What if we don't want to have a stroke? I have the right to not have a stroke right?

[iNow]

Fluid? Serotonin is not a fluid.    

Either way, it looks like my previous post was on point.  You've had some bad personal experiences and are just here to rant and blow off steam. 

[John Cuthber]

stop prescribing any uptake inhibitors without a trial. If I want to get anything across it's that.

Are there any uptake inhibitors that are available for prescription, but have not been subject to a trial?

If not then your post seems meaningless.

[Popcorn Sutton]

No, each person who gets the medication prescribed to them should be aware of the effects and if they don't want to take it but people think they should, then they have the right to a trial

[Phi for All]

Are you confusing the justice system and court trials with clinical trials of pharmaceutical products?

[Iggy]

stop prescribing any uptake inhibitors without a trial. If I want to get anything across it's that.

If you're going to wage a war against SSRIs then don't call yourself "Popcorn Sutton". I mean, just from irony's perspective: seritonin reuptake inhibitors are antidepressants and Popcorn Sutton killed himself. Bullets to the head are the more dangerous outcome of the two.

That said... I have a limited sympathy.

I assume you recently lost somebody who was forced to take an antidepressant. My mother didn't die, but she did recently have a heart attack 30 minutes after taking a similar type of drug with vasoconstricting properties (an anti-migraine thing) without being warned it could have that effect.

Serotonin acts as a vasoconstrictor and when you limit it's reuptake guess what therefore happens? Well, you have to guess because they won't tell you. No doctor in their right mind would say that the antidepressant they are giving you might cause blood vessels to constrict and therefore cause a stroke. Their employers don't like those kinds of lawsuits. No drug company would dare publish that linkage. They would, at best, lower the maximum dosage.

No... if a loved one were forced to take an SSRI and then had a stroke I could imagine some outrage. I could imagine wanting to get the word out.

Edited by Iggy, 23 February 2013 - 03:30 PM.

[John Cuthber]

"Serotonin acts as a vasoconstrictor and when you limit it's reuptake guess what therefore happens? Well, you have to guess because they won't tell you. No doctor in their right mind would say that the antidepressant they are giving you might cause blood vessels to constrict and therefore cause a stroke. Their employers don't like those kinds of lawsuits. No drug company would dare publish that linkage. They would, at best, lower the maximum dosage."

Or, you could search the web and find out that people have checked the effect of prozac (one of the best known SSRIs and find that it lowers blood pressure.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9934937

 

Why on earth did you think you would need to guess?

[Popcorn Sutton]

Iggy, my name is irrelevant, I don't know the real popcorns history so it doesn't mean anything to me. I just know that his name was funny, I liked it, and that he was a moon shiner.

As for the rest of the post, you've witnessed the effects of this type of medication, so I think you will back me up when I say that before we start taking the medication (which is not necessary to begin with), we have the right to know what it is going to do to our bodies. I was forced to start taking anti depressants, I refused to take them without knowing more about them. They got pissed at me shoved the medication into my hand and stood there until I took it threatening that if I didn't take it, they would force me to take it via injection. I took it. What happened shortly after? I had a series of minor strokes. They decided to up the dosage, and I definitely had a stroke.

What else? My aunt, who had been "struggling" with depression for years, was forced to take anti depressants, well she had a major stroke and needed brain surgery. She decided she wouldn't take them again. Well, her husband (who is not the type of guy you want to be around, washes dishes for a living at the age of 70) decided that she needed help mentally. She was forced back on the anti depressants and guess what happened? Another stroke! Now she can barely talk and she is cognitively incapacitated living in a nursing home. Its not right what you guys are doing and something needs to be done about it. It's bullshit. Somehow when people cooperate with doctors, they become above the law.

I think, and I hate to say this, that my family, who forced me into a psych ward, literally chased me down and dragged me by my collar to the hospital, should not have had the authority to do what they did. It was against my will. I'm fact, everything that resulted from the incident was against my will. These people should be tried for the crimes they've committed. If they bash my head with a bat, that is assault, but if they bash my head with ssri's that is treatment. Wtf seriously. It's hard to hold back profanities

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

In the United States, involuntary treatment or hospitalization already requires a court order for any more than a short detention. Rennie v. Klein established the right of involuntarily-committed patients to refuse medication.

 

Now, I suppose if you were under 18 at the time of involuntary hospitalization, then your parents would have the right to make such decisions for you. But adults already have the rights you demand.

[Popcorn Sutton]

I was probably about 21 at the time. It was entirely involuntary. They didn't allow me to have access to the internet and they also took away my phone. I had no means of communicating with the outside world unless I received a call (which was always from my mom). This system needs a revision asap. I kind of feel like I'm entitled to a settlement, something to make up for the sheer horror, enslavement, and isolation I endured involuntarily. No one should be put through that without having a trial first.

[John Cuthber]

So, you took a drug which is known to reduce blood pressure. Shortly afterwards you had a stroke, which is known to be strongly associated with high blood pressure.Yet you blame the drug for the stroke.

 

That looks like a post hoc fallacy to me.

 

And, as has been pointed out, adults generally have the authority to say that they don't want to take any treatment.

Would you like to comment on the circumstances under which you received this treatment?

As far as I know, doctors are not in the habit of press ganging patients into taking drugs. Had you, for example, been admitted to hospital?

[Phi for All]

 Its not right what you guys are doing and something needs to be done about it.

 

!

Moderator Note

Friendly tip: it's unnecessarily antagonistic to accuse the members here of malfeasance. This isn't the first time you've done this and it hurts your arguments to lump everyone together as the bad guys. Just sayin'.  

[Popcorn Sutton]

I was admitted to the hospital before I went to the psych ward. The circumstances are irrelevant, all I can tell you is that since the incident, I've secretly hated my parents. They won't let me do anything, they hate my friends, theyre not smart, if I don't do what they tell me to do they get extremely pissed and often my dad will corner me. What do people and animals do when they are cornered? I think you guys know the answer. In any case, he scared me, and I ran for my life, at which point he chased me and caught up and dragged me to the hospital by force where I was forced to do many things that I didn't want to do and explicitly made it clear that I didn't want to do them. They insisted that I was delusional, severely depressed, hallucinating, hearing voices, and diagnosed me schizophrenic which is when they began administering "treatment", which consisted of a 6mg dosage of risperdal (which gave me the tremors, prevented me from responding, and caused many involuntary twitches and screams), 150mg of welbutrin (which probably gave me several heart attacks, which I thought were just extreme adrenaline rushes at the time, and I felt myself have several strokes, one of which being like a gun shot through the side of my head), klonopin (which made me very lethargic), and abilify (which caused an extremely uncomfortable tension behind my right eyebrow).

My parents hated what the drugs were doing to me and they admit spending a lot of time crying about their decision to institutionalize me. Either way, nothing will change what happened and what they did to me, and part of me will always hate them because of that.

Sorry Phi. I won't be antagonistic anymore intentionally. I didn't mean to accuse all of you.

[Iggy]

Iggy, my name is irrelevant, I don't know the real popcorns history so it doesn't mean anything to me. I just know that his name was funny, I liked it, and that he was a moon shiner.

As for the rest of the post, you've witnessed the effects of this type of medication, so I think you will back me up when I say that before we start taking the medication (which is not necessary to begin with), we have the right to know what it is going to do to our bodies. I was forced to start taking anti depressants, I refused to take them without knowing more about them. They got pissed at me shoved the medication into my hand and stood there until I took it threatening that if I didn't take it, they would force me to take it via injection. I took it. What happened shortly after? I had a series of minor strokes. They decided to up the dosage, and I definitely had a stroke.

What else? My aunt, who had been "struggling" with depression for years, was forced to take anti depressants, well she had a major stroke and needed brain surgery. She decided she wouldn't take them again. Well, her husband (who is not the type of guy you want to be around, washes dishes for a living at the age of 70) decided that she needed help mentally. She was forced back on the anti depressants and guess what happened? Another stroke! Now she can barely talk and she is cognitively incapacitated living in a nursing home. Its not right what you guys are doing and something needs to be done about it. It's bullshit. Somehow when people cooperate with doctors, they become above the law.

I think, and I hate to say this, that my family, who forced me into a psych ward, literally chased me down and dragged me by my collar to the hospital, should not have had the authority to do what they did. It was against my will. I'm fact, everything that resulted from the incident was against my will. These people should be tried for the crimes they've committed. If they bash my head with a bat, that is assault, but if they bash my head with ssri's that is treatment. Wtf seriously. It's hard to hold back profanities

 

I thought your name was ironic is all I meant. 

 

I appreciate your situation.  I really do.  I can't imagine your situation or how it felt.

 

It is, technically, assault for a doctor to treat a patient against their will if they aren't determined incompetent.  "Assault" is exactly what the doctor would be charged with. 

 

I'm sure SSRIs are over prescribed.  I'm sure, also, that most patients are not adequately informed of even the labeled side effects.  But, I also believe that doctors do their very best to live by the hyppocratic oath.  No doctor is trying to hurt you by prescribing an antidepressant.  While no doctor can say before giving you something what exactly the effect will be on your body, they aren't trying to cause harm by giving it. 

 

If a consensus of doctors want to treat you a certain way then I think you should trust the treatment.

I was admitted to the hospital before I went to the psych ward. The circumstances are irrelevant, all I can tell you is that since the incident, I've secretly hated my parents. They won't let me do anything, they hate my friends, theyre not smart, if I don't do what they tell me to do they get extremely pissed and often my dad will corner me. What do people and animals do when they are cornered? I think you guys know the answer. In any case, he scared me, and I ran for my life, at which point he chased me and caught up and dragged me to the hospital by force where I was forced to do many things that I didn't want to do and explicitly made it clear that I didn't want to do them. They insisted that I was delusional, severely depressed, hallucinating, hearing voices, and diagnosed me schizophrenic which is when they began administering "treatment", which consisted of a 6mg dosage of risperdal (which gave me the tremors, prevented me from responding, and caused many involuntary twitches and screams), 150mg of welbutrin (which probably gave me several heart attacks, which I thought were just extreme adrenaline rushes at the time, and I felt myself have several strokes, one of which being like a gun shot through the side of my head), klonopin (which made me very lethargic), and abilify (which caused an extremely uncomfortable tension behind my right eyebrow).

My parents hated what the drugs were doing to me and they admit spending a lot of time crying about their decision to institutionalize me. Either way, nothing will change what happened and what they did to me, and part of me will always hate them because of that.

Sorry Phi. I won't be antagonistic anymore intentionally. I didn't mean to accuse all of you.

 

Welbutrin is not an SSRI.  I guessed wrong what drug class you meant.  It is an MAOI and has much more complicated side effects.  Your early twenties is exactly when schizophrenia would present.  Suddenly feeling differently about your parents and apprehensive about doctors could easily be symptoms.  If a consensus of doctors diagnose you with that condition then you should absolutely trust the advice they give you and the treatment they prescribe.  Even if it is scary.  Even if it is difficult.  They are trying to help you.

"Serotonin acts as a vasoconstrictor and when you limit it's reuptake guess what therefore happens? Well, you have to guess because they won't tell you. No doctor in their right mind would say that the antidepressant they are giving you might cause blood vessels to constrict and therefore cause a stroke. Their employers don't like those kinds of lawsuits. No drug company would dare publish that linkage. They would, at best, lower the maximum dosage."

Or, you could search the web and find out that people have checked the effect of prozac (one of the best known SSRIs and find that it lowers blood pressure.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9934937

 

Why on earth did you think you would need to guess?

 

Low blood pressure is not dispositive for strokes.  Many things... like snake venom.... can cause both.