[DamagedGoods]

I wish to know any and all processes for separating oxygen and hydrogen from each other.


JUST TO BE CLEAR I AM NOT USING STANDARD ELECTROLYSIS AND WATER TO PRODUCE THE GASES AND SO ELECTROLYSIS IS NOT A VIABLE METHOD AS IT TAKES MORE ENERGY THAT I AM NOT WANTING TO WASTE!!

I just need to know how to separate them when they are in gas form in order to store them more safely. I understand how dangerous it is, but for me it is worth it. I am thinking of making oxides, but I am unsure if this will work or if there is an easy way to release the oxygen after being separated from the hydrogen. I want both gases. I was thinking maybe using mercury to make an oxide and then using sunlight to separate them, but the reaction gives off poisonous gas that then needs separating as well. Can anybody help me?? I hope I am in the right forum section. I only have grade ten and I really don't know much of the technical terms. So please be gentle with me haha.

Just want to add that if I have to continue through a process of reactions using every element to get to an easy low cost/energy solution I will.

This isn't a scheme either, I am using energy input to produce the oxygen hydrogen mixture.

This post has been edited by DamagedGoods: 11 February 2012 - 03:16 AM

[Suxamethonium]

Im confused? Could you not just make hydrogen and oxygen in different chemical reactions? Then you don't even mix them in the first place.

Hydrogen - acid and metal or NaOH and Al.

Oxygen - Hydrogen peroxide and catalyst.

Mixing them can be dangerous (explosive) though, so be careful if you plan on doing such- or preferably don't do it.

[Fuzzwood]

All hydrogen/oxygen separating methods need more energy than the combustion of hydrogen gas is gonna give you. Something to do with entropy and Carnot's theory. Pick up a book of thermodynamics please.

[John Cuthber]

Separating a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen doesn't take much energy (It does take some).
You can let the mixture diffuse through a fine pored membrane for example.

Splitting water into H2 and O2 takes a lot of energy.

However you separate the gas mixture it's still remarkably dangerous. It's a better bet to produce them separately.
The only thing I can think of that you might be trying to do is split water thermally, then separate the gases. The big problem is that the gases will react as soon as they cool down unless you can sort them while they are still very hot. But water, hydrogen and oxygen at those sorts of temperatures are very corrosive. It's difficult to get anything to work under those conditions

[DamagedGoods]

Thanks for all your replies guys.

I suppose I need to be more specific.

I have developed a cheap method for stored energy in the form of oxygen and hydrogen from water without the need of a dc generator to split them. I understand thermodynamics so if you would please reread my original post as vague as it is you would see my problem isn't the energy factors but separating the two gases:). I am trying to use the most energy/cost efficient and safe process for separating the gases to increase my yield of the stored energy. The process does not allow for me to keep the gases separate . Also production is important so I am not sure that a membrane would work. I am starting to lean towards a distillation tower but I don't exactly have the liquid gases required to cool them to be condensed, also I think this method requires allot of energy that would defeat the purpose of my project.

I'm not using thermal, the process runs at room temperature.

My roadblock is simply separating the two gases from one another.

Could the mercury gas be condensed at more manageable temps then what I would need for a distillation tower for the oxygen or hydrogen? Maybe mercury isn't the way for me to go, but maybe creating a different oxide?? Maybe iron or something more manageable? I don't know, my lack of chemistry knowledge really has me stumped.

DamagedGoods, on 12 February 2012 - 01:17 AM, said:

Thanks for all your replies guys.

I suppose I need to be more specific.

I have developed a cheap method for stored energy in the form of oxygen and hydrogen from water without the need of a dc generator to split them. I understand thermodynamics so if you would please reread my original post as vague as it is you would see my problem isn't the energy factors but separating the two gases:). I am trying to use the most energy/cost efficient and safe process for separating the gases to increase my yield of the stored energy. The production process I am using does not allow for me to keep the gases separate . Also production is important so I am not sure that a membrane would work. I am starting to lean towards a distillation tower but I don't exactly have the liquid gases required to cool them to be condensed, also I think this method requires allot of energy that would defeat the purpose of my project.

I'm not using thermal, the process runs at room temperature.

My roadblock is simply separating the two gases from one another.

Could the mercury gas be condensed at more manageable temps then what I would need for a distillation tower for the oxygen or hydrogen? Maybe mercury isn't the way for me to go, but maybe creating a different oxide?? Maybe iron or something more manageable? I don't know, my lack of chemistry knowledge really has me stumped.

This post has been edited by DamagedGoods: 12 February 2012 - 01:41 AM

[John Cuthber]

I don't think that using mercury would work.
Under any conditions where mercury reacts with oxygen (i.e. rather hot), the mercury oxide would react with hydrogen and give water.
This pair of reactions would give out heat and would soon cause the gas mixture to explode.

Some sort of membrane separator would be the way to go but the "traditional" way to do it is to use a hot palladium membrane and that would catalyse the reaction of H2 and O2 to form water.

Part of the problem you face is that mixtures of H2 and O2 are damnable dangerous= people try to avoid producing them so relatively little work will have been done on separating them.

[DamagedGoods]

hmmm any idea where i might be able to aquire palladium from recycling a commercial product? Or would I have to buy it from a supplier?

[John Cuthber]

I could answer that but aiding a suicide isn't legal.

[DamagedGoods]

[quote name='John Cuthber' timestamp='1329081824' post='657921']
I could answer that but aiding a suicide isn't legal.
[/quote/]

Lol I was potentially going to use it after converting one of the gases into a different compound, if I can find one. I sapose I could create a series of one way valves and just use it as a fuel directly, but I don't think this idea would be very safe or efficient. I'll figure it out eventually and I'm not about to go on a scale that would create enough of the gases to blow up and kill myself. I do have more sense then that! Lol funny comment though haha.

[John Cuthber]

I wasn't joking.

[DamagedGoods]

me either lol, anyway thx for the help.