[1=1]

Can somebody give a direct answer to my question? I know there have been a few, but lets get this thread back on track shall we?

[Tres Juicy]

1=1, on 14 February 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

Can somebody give a direct answer to my question? I know there have been a few, but lets get this thread back on track shall we?

I will: There is no god.

If there was and the fairy tale were true then he would, but it's not.

Of course the theists will give excuses as to why an "all powerful" and "infinite" "god" can't or won't prevent evil, but their arguments are always full of holes and completely devoid of evidence.

The fact is; humans are geared towards understanding things through a narrative, and in order to create a narrative about the universe you must first anthropomorphise it, giving it intention and purpose. That's where god comes from.

It's a nice story, but nothing more.

This post has been edited by Tres Juicy: 14 February 2012 - 09:53 PM

[njaohnt]

1=1, on 14 February 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

Can somebody give a direct answer to my question? I know there have been a few, but lets get this thread back on track shall we?

There isn't an answer, if you ask me.
You are not God. You have seen what He has done, but you have not seen Him. You can't answer that question. There are a lot of assumptions.

mississippichem, on 13 February 2012 - 03:17 AM, said:

You're not Dovoda by any chance are you? If your are, then you would be a sockpuppet and the hounds are probably already on their way.

I am really sure that that is incorrect.

iNow, on 13 February 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

If you think of atheism as a religion, then you should also think of bald as a hair color and "not stamp collecting" as a hobby.

Well, not a hair colour, but a type of hair.

I don't see how stamp collecting, and "'not stamp collecting'" relate to atheism, and Christianity.

Edtharan, on 14 February 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

If I was to believe you owed me a million dollars, would that be enough to make it true? No. If it did, then you would owe me one million dollars (so if you think just belieing something to be true makes it so, then pay up ).

Now that you have said "you owed me a million dollars", let's say that you really mean it.
There is evidence that I owe you 1 000 000 dollars, that post.
Now that's not much evidence, but it is still evidence. If I deny that I owe you it, there is evidence against it.

See what I mean. The Bible is evidence. No matter what you say. Are you saying that everything that you say isn't evidence, because of much of the reasons that you put evidence against God, is just something you put? Yes, you are putting evidence. So is the Bible. Were you with them while they wrote the Bible? No. You don't have much evidence that people even wrote the Bible.

Edtharan, on 14 February 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

But lets look at yourself. If you wrote on average 1,000 words a day, it would only take you 770 days to reach the amount of words you have used as the example.

1,000 words a day might sound like a lot, but in this post I have already written 110 words (not counting numbers) and this only took me around 2 minutes to do. this means 1,000 words should only take me around 20 minutes to write the 1,000 words.

Or to put it another way the 770,00 words would only take me around 10 days of continuous work.

hmm, only 10 days. not a lot is it. If I wanted to fool people, that is not a lot of effort is it.

Yea, but how many copies did they make. They didn't have photocopiers.

Oh, I just looked at 999's profile. To bad Dovoda, try again.

[doG]

1=1, on 29 January 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

There has been something that has been bothering me for an hour or so now. The bible says that god....

Define 'god'! It's hard to debate the existence of something that is not exactly defined to begin with.

[Moontanman]

njaohnt, on 15 February 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

See what I mean. The Bible is evidence. No matter what you say. Are you saying that everything that you say isn't evidence, because of much of the reasons that you put evidence against God, is just something you put? Yes, you are putting evidence. So is the Bible. Were you with them while they wrote the Bible? No. You don't have much evidence that people even wrote the Bible.

Yea, but how many copies did they make. They didn't have photocopiers.

Oh, I just looked at 999's profile. To bad Dovoda, try again.

njaohnt, let make sure I'm not misunderstanding you. You are saying that the fact that such a complex manuscript was written and copied so many times, so long ago, and that the effort of doing so was so great that this is reason to suspect it's true?

[iNow]

Not that it really matters, but out of curiosity njaohnt, would I be correct in assuming that you are somewhere between age 11 and 14?

[Phi for All]

njaohnt, on 15 February 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

Well, not a hair colour, but a type of hair.

Are you saying that the bottoms of my feet, which are bald, have a "type of hair" on them?

Quote

I don't see how stamp collecting, and "'not stamp collecting'" relate to atheism, and Christianity.

Theists believe, atheists don't. Stamp collectors collect stamps, not stamp collectors don't. The atheist doesn't even think about God until someone brings it up, much like the guy who doesn't collect stamps doesn't think about collecting stamps. If you had a belief system revolving around turning lead into gold, and I didn't, why on Earth would you say my belief system revolves around NOT believing in alchemy?

Quote

Now that you have said "you owed me a million dollars", let's say that you really mean it.
There is evidence that I owe you 1 000 000 dollars, that post.
Now that's not much evidence, but it is still evidence. If I deny that I owe you it, there is evidence against it.

This is COMPLETELY INCORRECT. I don't care how much Edtharan believes you owe him $1M, him saying you do is NOT evidence. It's hearsay, and not even admissible in a court. You denying it is also hearsay, but since Edtharan is the one making the outrageous claim, it's up to him to provide witnesses and contracts that can be examined to determine their authenticity. The Bible fails those kinds of tests in many places, which at the very least proves that it is NOT inerrant.

Quote

See what I mean. The Bible is evidence. No matter what you say. Are you saying that everything that you say isn't evidence, because of much of the reasons that you put evidence against God, is just something you put? Yes, you are putting evidence. So is the Bible. Were you with them while they wrote the Bible? No. You don't have much evidence that people even wrote the Bible.

No one here has any evidence against the existence of God. There is plenty of evidence that the Bible has errors, and plenty of evidence that there was no worldwide flood, and NONE OF IT IS MERELY PEOPLE SAYING THINGS. We can look at geological records to see when severe flooding has happened, and there seems to be evidence of a massive local flood from the Black Sea (we can tell when the Black Sea was freshwater based on freshwater fossils, and when it suddenly became inundated by salt water from the Mediterranean) but none of the evidence supports a global flood, and there are also several reasons why the world couldn't be covered completely with water.

Quote

Yea, but how many copies did they make. They didn't have photocopiers.

They had lots of monks and lots of ink and lots of parchment and lots of time.

[1=1]

njaohnt, on 15 February 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

There isn't an answer, if you ask me.
You are not God. You have seen what He has done, but you have not seen Him. You can't answer that question. There are a lot of assumptions.



I am really sure that that is incorrect.



Well, not a hair colour, but a type of hair.

I don't see how stamp collecting, and "'not stamp collecting'" relate to atheism, and Christianity.



Now that you have said "you owed me a million dollars", let's say that you really mean it.
There is evidence that I owe you 1 000 000 dollars, that post.
Now that's not much evidence, but it is still evidence. If I deny that I owe you it, there is evidence against it.

See what I mean. The Bible is evidence. No matter what you say. Are you saying that everything that you say isn't evidence, because of much of the reasons that you put evidence against God, is just something you put? Yes, you are putting evidence. So is the Bible. Were you with them while they wrote the Bible? No. You don't have much evidence that people even wrote the Bible.



Yea, but how many copies did they make. They didn't have photocopiers.

Oh, I just looked at 999's profile. To bad Dovoda, try again.

I have to agree that the bible is evidence, very minor evidence and not very compelling either, but evidence nether the less. Also, just because there is a large cumulation of incorrect data, it doesn't make it correct.

[Arete]

njaohnt, on 15 February 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

The Bible is evidence. No matter what you say.

I guess I'm talking to myself in here. Please address the circularity of using the bible as proof of God.

Otherwise this argument has as much merit as using the works of Tolkien as evidence of Hobbits.

[njaohnt]

Moontanman, on 15 February 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

njaohnt, let make sure I'm not misunderstanding you. You are saying that the fact that such a complex manuscript was written and copied so many times, so long ago, and that the effort of doing so was so great that this is reason to suspect it's true?

It's enough evidence for me.

iNow, on 15 February 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

Not that it really matters, but out of curiosity njaohnt, would I be correct in assuming that you are somewhere between age 11 and 14?

Yes.

Phi for All, on 15 February 2012 - 01:28 AM, said:

1. Are you saying that the bottoms of my feet, which are bald, have a "type of hair" on them?


2. Theists believe, atheists don't. Stamp collectors collect stamps, not stamp collectors don't. The atheist doesn't even think about God until someone brings it up, much like the guy who doesn't collect stamps doesn't think about collecting stamps. If you had a belief system revolving around turning lead into gold, and I didn't, why on Earth would you say my belief system revolves around NOT believing in alchemy?

1. No, but if someone ask you "what type of hair is on the bottom of your feet", you would say "the bottom of my feet are bald".

2. OK, let's say I had that belief system. You don't. You believe that you can't make gold out of lead. If someone ask you, "how do you believe that njaohnt makes lead into gold", you would say, "I don't believe that". It is a type of belief.

[Moontanman]

njaohnt, on 15 February 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

It's enough evidence for me.

If that is the case then what about other ancient religious texts? Some of them are far older and more complex than the holy bible. Do you give them the same credence as you do the bible?

[iNow]

iNow, on 15 February 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

Not that it really matters, but out of curiosity njaohnt, would I be correct in assuming that you are somewhere between age 11 and 14?

njaohnt, on 15 February 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

Yes.

Thank you for being so polite and replying to my question. Your response gives me great hope, and I do appreciate it.

[Phi for All]

njaohnt, on 15 February 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

1. No, but if someone ask you "what type of hair is on the bottom of your feet", you would say "the bottom of my feet are bald".

How arrogant of you to assume you know what I would say!

I would NOT say this. I would say, "There isn't ANY hair on the bottom of my feet, there never has been and I don't ever expect there to be".

Quote

2. OK, let's say I had that belief system. You don't. You believe that you can't make gold out of lead. If someone ask you, "how do you believe that njaohnt makes lead into gold", you would say, "I don't believe that". It is a type of belief.

Again, I would NOT say that. My stance is that you can't turn lead into gold, you've never been able to prove you can, so why on Earth would anyone ask me why I believe you can?

[njaohnt]

Moontanman, on 15 February 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

If that is the case then what about other ancient religious texts? Some of them are far older and more complex than the holy bible. Do you give them the same credence as you do the bible?

I have only heard about one that did something. Something a box that didn't have food, and then after they prayed, there was food in it. I've heard of many, and seen many things that God has done. Haven't you?

Phi for All, on 15 February 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

How arrogant of you to assume you know what I would say!

I would NOT say this. I would say, "There isn't ANY hair on the bottom of my feet, there never has been and I don't ever expect there to be".


Again, I would NOT say that. My stance is that you can't turn lead into gold, you've never been able to prove you can, so why on Earth would anyone ask me why I believe you can?

Pretend that there's evidence.

[Tres Juicy]

njaohnt, on 15 February 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

Pretend that there's evidence.

Ah, the religious argument

[Moontanman]

njaohnt, on 15 February 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

I have only heard about one that did something. Something a box that didn't have food, and then after they prayed, there was food in it. I've heard of many, and seen many things that God has done. Haven't you?

Reading about it or hearing about it most certainly doesn't make it true and there are many religious texts of religions other than yours, about many gods and pantheons of gods other than yours, how do you decide which one is real?

This post has been edited by Moontanman: 16 February 2012 - 12:23 AM

[Phi for All]

njaohnt, on 15 February 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

Pretend that there's evidence.

That's your job, not mine.

[Moontanman]

Pretend there is evidence... IMHO think this discussion has run it's course...

[Klaynos]

Moontanman, on 16 February 2012 - 12:22 AM, said:

Pretend there is evidence... IMHO think this discussion has run it's course...

!

Moderator Note

I agree.

1=1, sorry that this thread got pretty side tracked. There are a few answers along the way. No one's going to tell you off for reintroducing the question, this wasn't your fault.

Thread closed.