[immijimmi]

As I understand it, the lines in this image are potential paths of virtual photons. What would make them bend like that?

[timo]

You misunderstand it. The lines are merely visualizations of the magnetic field.

[immijimmi]

timo, on 2 January 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

You misunderstand it. The lines are merely visualizations of the magnetic field.

A magnetic field is created by the exchange of energy in the form of virtual photons, right? this is what causes attraction and repulsion in magnets, absorbing or releasing virtual photons. But what i'm asking is why they can curve from one pole of a magnet to reach the other pole in such a way.

[swansont]

immijimmi, on 2 January 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

A magnetic field is created by the exchange of energy in the form of virtual photons, right? this is what causes attraction and repulsion in magnets, absorbing or releasing virtual photons. But what i'm asking is why they can curve from one pole of a magnet to reach the other pole in such a way.

By "they" do you mean the photons? Simple: they don't do that. As timo stated, there are the lines of force.

[immijimmi]

swansont, on 2 January 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

By "they" do you mean the photons? Simple: they don't do that. As timo stated, there are the lines of force.

So if those are 'lines of force' rather than the paths of photons, then what are lines of force? I really don't understand what you mean now :/

[swansont]

immijimmi, on 3 January 2012 - 04:24 AM, said:

So if those are 'lines of force' rather than the paths of photons, then what are lines of force? I really don't understand what you mean now :/

They tell you the direction of the force if you placed a test magnet at that point.

[timo]

At least for a magnetic (mono-) north-pole . In case of the magnetic field the lines only tell you which way a compass would point at the given location (with the arrow in your diagram above pointing towards the south-half of the needle).

[derek w]

immijimmi.When you say "I really don't understand what you mean now".The point is it's just a model of what is known.The reason that billions of pounds is being spent on particle accelerator experiments is because nobody really knows for sure.That's my understanding of the situation,please correct me if I am wrong.

And your thread has gone from virtual photons to photons.You started the thread with virtual photons.

[immijimmi]

derek w, on 3 January 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

immijimmi.When you say "I really don't understand what you mean now".The point is it's just a model of what is known.The reason that billions of pounds is being spent on particle accelerator experiments is because nobody really knows for sure.That's my understanding of the situation,please correct me if I am wrong.

And your thread has gone from virtual photons to photons.You started the thread with virtual photons.

Why has it gone from virtual photons to photons?

Okay, here's why i'm confused. My teacher for AS physics informed me that in an EM interaction between two electrically charged objects (such as the north and south pole of a magnet, or an electron and proton), virtual photons pass between the two along the lines shown in that diagram. In repulsion, the virtual photons are recieved and given along the direct routes which causes the movement of the objects away from each other. In attraction, the virtual photons are recieved and given in a looping path that goes from the 'back' of one object to the 'back' of the other, which causes movement of the objects towards each other. My initial question was why the virtual photons looped around in such a way, but it appears either I have been misinformed or I have phrased my question badly.

[questionposter]

I think those lines are caused by the fact that virtual photons spread out over distances and are in stronger concentration at the sources and become weaker as they go out, the lines don't represent the virtual particle's themselves, but how the attraction between the forces gets weaker or stronger at different distances.

[immijimmi]

Agh, I give up on this one until university. Too many conflicting answers :/

[derek w]

There is a concept of vacuum energy and virtual particles.Which seems to be a basic principle of quantum theory.
The mass of oscillating particles that make up the magnet,cause the vacuum energy to oscillate creating virtual particles,the virtual particles would be matter/anti matter and annihilate.How this model goes from this to magnetic attraction I don't understand.But its away of explaining the creation of a local magnetic field.

This post has been edited by derek w: 5 January 2012 - 10:41 PM

[Widdekind]

In magnetostatics, the force transmitted, between two particles, is proportional, not only to the charges, and the inverse square of the distance, but also to the particles' velocities:

How is that additional, velocity, dependence modeled, or explained, in the virtual photon picture ?

immijimmi, on 2 January 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

To generate that 'solenoidal' field, would require currents, of moving charges, revolving around the central axis of the magnet, according to the 'right-hand rule'.

As it happens, those currents generate, outside the solenoid, magnetic field lines that are more-or-less oriented along that same axis. And, the magnetic force , for any test-charge velocity, generates forces that also 'revolve around' those field lines, i.e. test charges spiraling around the field lines, would "mimic the motion", of the generating charges, in the solenoid, which are spiraling around the central axis.

Thus, the virtual photons emanated, from the central, spiraling, generating charges, some-how evoke a "sympathetic motion", induced into neighboring charges, so that they "replicate" the motions, of the generating charges.

[derek w]

when you say "mimic the motion",does this mean that the negative side of the virtual particles orbit around the positive side?
Plus would there be a resistance to the creation of virtual particles,at a certain distance the energy level becomes to low to overcome the resistance,creating a cut of point beyond which no virtual particles are created.
So as the negative side of the virtual particle gains angular momentum(having a radius of 1),while the positive side does not(having a radius of 0).

This post has been edited by derek w: 8 January 2012 - 05:18 PM

[Widdekind]

I don't understand what you are saying.

I'm trying to say, that, according to the 'Right-Hand Rule',

• to generate that 'solenoidal' magnetic field, of that bar-magnet, in that diagram, via actual currents of actual charged particles, would require those currents to be 'solenoidal', i.e. spiraling around the central axis; and,
  
• that charged particles, in that 'solenoidal' field, near that bar-magnet, where the field lines "wrap back around" essentially straight-and-parallel to that bar-magnet, would spiral around those field lines, in much the same sense, as the charged particles, which generated the field, in the first place

Er go, the generating charges are "spiraling around" the central axis, emanating a magnetic field, that induces nearby charges, to "spiral around" the field lines, in much the same "dance", as the generating charges.