[Newbies_Kid]

When i use Listerine my throat feel very itchy and make me want to cough. I need to drink a lot of fresh water to relieve cough.

[Greg Boyles]

Newbies_Kid, on 14 December 2011 - 04:30 AM, said:

When i use Listerine my throat feel very itchy and make me want to cough. I need to drink a lot of fresh water to relieve cough.

I believe some medical scientists have discovered that the isopropyl alcohol used in mouth washes may be a carcinogen.

Quote

Isopropyl Alcohol: - Implicated in mouth, tongue, and throat cancers. A colorless, volatile, flammable liquid produced by the fermentation of yeast and carbohydrates. Alcohol is used frequently as a solvent and is also found in cleaning agents, cosmetics and personal care products, perfumes and rubbing alcohol, beverages and medicine. As an ingredient in ingestible products, alcohol may cause body tissues to be more vulnerable to carcinogens. Mouthwashes with an alcohol content of 25% or more have been implicated in oral cancers. Poisoning symptoms include flushing, dizziness, depression, nausea, headaches, and coma. Rubbing alcohol baths or sponges used to soothe a fever can lead to acute poisoning through skin absorption or inhalation. Package warning suggest using protective gloves, and using a well-ventilated area.

[Phi for All]

Greg Boyles, on 14 December 2011 - 10:41 PM, said:

I believe some medical scientists have discovered that the isopropyl alcohol used in mouth washes may be a carcinogen.

Your source may be a bit suspect, since it's repeated in many herbal remedy promotion sites.

From OSHA: http://www.osha.gov/...on.html

Quote

Epidemiological studies suggested an association between isopropyl alcohol and paranasal sinus cancer; however, subsequent analysis suggests that the "strong-acid" process used to manufacture isopropyl alcohol may be responsible for these cancers.

Which still means there may be risks, but manufacturing processes are correctable.

[Newbies_Kid]

Actually i use this product since 3 years ago. But just recently i feel very uncomfortable after using Listerine. My cough become more worst if i stay in air-conditioning room. Yes, i found ethanol in Listerine. May be the drying effect of ethanol cause me wanna cough. I also found Acid Benzoic in its ingredients. Wow Acid + alcohol in Listerine. How can FDA guarantee this product is safe?

[doG]

Newbies_Kid, on 15 December 2011 - 04:26 AM, said:

Wow Acid + alcohol in Listerine. How can FDA guarantee this product is safe?

Hydric acid is frequently added to various concoctions made with ethanol...

[hypervalent_iodine]

I think you'll find 'hydric acid' is added to or present in most anything you consume.

Benzoic acid is something you find in food all the time. It's used as a food preservative. I'm not entirely sure why it is in there, though possibly it is one of the other antiseptic ingredients. The ethanol is needed in order to dissolve that as well as all the other antiseptic agents, which are, IIRC, terpenes and won't dissolve in water.

[John Cuthber]

Greg Boyles, on 14 December 2011 - 10:41 PM, said:

I believe some medical scientists have discovered that the isopropyl alcohol used in mouth washes may be a carcinogen.

I believe that listerine (generally) uses ethanol. That's also widely known to be toxic, but it leaves me wondering why you seem to be worrying about the wrong chemical.

They also do an alcohol free version.

[Greg Boyles]

John Cuthber, on 15 December 2011 - 07:22 PM, said:

I believe that listerine (generally) uses ethanol. That's also widely known to be toxic, but it leaves me wondering why you seem to be worrying about the wrong chemical.

They also do an alcohol free version.

Not that I have ever looked at the active ingredients, but I seem to remember a news item some time ago about the fact that the isopropyl alcohol in mouth washes may be carcinogenic.

But no doubt some products use isopropyl alcohol and others use ethanol.

Ethanol, or more precisely its oxidation product acetaldehyde, is also believed to be carcinogenic.

Recent studies have indicated that there is no safe level of consumption of alcoholic beverages.

[John Cuthber]

"Not that I have ever looked at the active ingredients"
Perhaps you should have.


"But no doubt some products use isopropyl alcohol"
Name one.

Consumption of alcohol is known to be a risk factor for (at least some ) cancers.
However it is also known that consumption of alcohol in moderation is associated with longer life than being tee total.

As far as I'm aware, no study has been done on gargling and spitting it out.
Can you cite one?

"Recent studies have indicated that there is no safe level of consumption of alcoholic beverages."
Studies on alcohol and health are notoriously difficult to do and these seem to be trying to prove a negative- which is a logical impossibility.
Can you cite a reference for them please?

[doG]

Greg Boyles, on 15 December 2011 - 09:12 PM, said:

Recent studies have indicated that there is no safe level of consumption of alcoholic beverages.

Can you substantiate that with some links please? Older studies show that a glass of wine a day is actually good for you.

[DrRocket]

John Cuthber, on 15 December 2011 - 10:04 PM, said:

"Not that I have ever looked at the active ingredients"
Perhaps you should have.


"But no doubt some products use isopropyl alcohol"
Name one.

Consumption of alcohol is known to be a risk factor for (at least some ) cancers.
However it is also known that consumption of alcohol in moderation is associated with longer life than being tee total.

As far as I'm aware, no study has been done on gargling and spitting it out.
Can you cite one?

"Recent studies have indicated that there is no safe level of consumption of alcoholic beverages."
Studies on alcohol and health are notoriously difficult to do and these seem to be trying to prove a negative- which is a logical impossibility.
Can you cite a reference for them please?

The alcohol in Listerine is ethanol, unsurprisingly. 21.6% per the MSDS

http://www.discounto...703MSDS1354.pdf


I recommend gargling and spitting out Listerine.

If one intends to swallow ethanol there are more palatable forms. I recommend a nice sour mash Bourbon, a good Scotch or a nice Merlot.

Gargliong isopropanol is not recommended. Neither is drinking it. Ditto for methanol (which is why good moonshiners discard the top cut).

[Greg Boyles]

John Cuthber, on 15 December 2011 - 10:04 PM, said:

"Not that I have ever looked at the active ingredients"
Perhaps you should have.


"But no doubt some products use isopropyl alcohol"
Name one.

Consumption of alcohol is known to be a risk factor for (at least some ) cancers.
However it is also known that consumption of alcohol in moderation is associated with longer life than being tee total.

As far as I'm aware, no study has been done on gargling and spitting it out.
Can you cite one?

"Recent studies have indicated that there is no safe level of consumption of alcoholic beverages."
Studies on alcohol and health are notoriously difficult to do and these seem to be trying to prove a negative- which is a logical impossibility.
Can you cite a reference for them please?

"Isopropyl alcohol is oxidized by the liver into acetone by alcohol dehydrogenase. "

So medical drug authorities would not allow its use in mouth washes given this.

Either I misunderstood the news item or the reporter got it wrong - it was some years ago and I only vaguely recollect the details.

Found a mention of methyl alcohol (probably on small amount) sometimes being used in mouth washes - that would be rather dangerous surely.

Thankyou for instigating me to correct a misconception that I had picked up by the way.

Actually on further reading, I probably got isopropyl alcohol confused with chlorohexidine (as far as mount washes go) as both are common antiseptics used in a wide range of products.

http://www.drugs.com...orhexidine.html

Chlorohexidine is known to be carcinogenic beyond a certain dose.

doG, on 15 December 2011 - 10:13 PM, said:

Can you substantiate that with some links please? Older studies show that a glass of wine a day is actually good for you.

As with anything in life there are both advantages and disadvantages.

I believe various components in red wine have antioxidant properties and confer a health benefit, however the high alcohol content also confers a detriment apparently.

This was also in a prominent news report on Australian television, by a credible medical scientists/doctor, that I do remember quite well as I was surprised for the same reason as you.

Here is a link for you: http://en.wikipedia....ohol_and_cancer. You can take it from here if you wish.

Interesting.....so there is a segment of the population that is particularly at risk from alcohol induced cancer.

Quote

AcetaldehydeAcetaldehyde is produced by the liver as it breaks down ethanol. The liver then normally eliminates 99% of the acetaldehyde. An average liver can process 7 grams of ethanol per hour. For example, it takes 12 hours to eliminate the ethanol in a bottle of wine, giving 12 hours or more of acetaldehyde exposure. A study of 818 heavy drinkers found that those who are exposed to more acetaldehyde than normal through a defect in the gene for alcohol dehydrogenase are at greater risk of developing cancers of the upper gastrointestinal tract and liver.^[15]

This post has been edited by Greg Boyles: 15 December 2011 - 10:36 PM

[CharonY]

Uh, I remember studies where cholorhexidine was tested in cancer patients to figure out whether they provided benefits for mucositis (I think it did not). But I am unaware of studies linking it to cancer in any way.

[Greg Boyles]

CharonY, on 15 December 2011 - 11:33 PM, said:

Uh, I remember studies where cholorhexidine was tested in cancer patients to figure out whether they provided benefits for mucositis (I think it did not). But I am unaware of studies linking it to cancer in any way.

Perhaps it is not so much the chlorohexidine as the perhaps unavoidable impurities in it:

http://www.mendeley....ne-digluconate/

[Ringer]

Greg Boyles, on 15 December 2011 - 10:46 PM, said:

As with anything in life there are both advantages and disadvantages.

I believe various components in red wine have antioxidant properties and confer a health benefit, however the high alcohol content also confers a detriment apparently.

This was also in a prominent news report on Australian television, by a credible medical scientists/doctor, that I do remember quite well as I was surprised for the same reason as you.

Here is a link for you: http://en.wikipedia....ohol_and_cancer. You can take it from here if you wish.

Interesting.....so there is a segment of the population that is particularly at risk from alcohol induced cancer.

But that's not what you said. You said there was no safe amount of alcohol.

[doG]

Greg Boyles, on 15 December 2011 - 09:12 PM, said:

Recent studies have indicated that there is no safe level of consumption of alcoholic beverages.

Greg Boyles, on 15 December 2011 - 10:46 PM, said:

As with anything in life there are both advantages and disadvantages.I believe various components in red wine have antioxidant properties and confer a health benefit, however the high alcohol content also confers a detriment apparently.This was also in a prominent news report on Australian television, by a credible medical scientists/doctor, that I do remember quite well as I was surprised for the same reason as you.Here is a link for you: http://en.wikipedia....ohol_and_cancer. You can take it from here if you wish.Interesting.....so there is a segment of the population that is particularly at risk from alcohol induced cancer.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnttttttttt!!!! Wrong answer. You said, "Recent studies have indicated that there is no safe level of consumption of alcoholic beverages." Not only does your link not support your claim, it doesn't even address it. Sorry, no winner this time, please try again.

[John Cuthber]

He also said "But no doubt some products use isopropyl alcohol and others use ethanol." which was also just plain wrong.

Greg,
did you say anything that was both correct and relevant?
(Please note that the OP probably does not have cancer)

[Greg Boyles]

John Cuthber, on 16 December 2011 - 06:58 AM, said:

He also said "But no doubt some products use isopropyl alcohol and others use ethanol." which was also just plain wrong.

Greg,
did you say anything that was both correct and relevant?
(Please note that the OP probably does not have cancer)

I have recanted this already after reading further about isopropyl alcohol, about mouth washes and about chlorohexidine. My recollection of the details of the matter was simply incorrect.

But it does not change the fact that medical authorities now regard alcohol containing mouth washes carcinogenic and that there is no safe level of alcohol consumption in general.

Please refer to the links below.




This is obviously the medical warning I remember seeing.

But it is related to the ethanol content, with no mention of chlorohexidine

From 2009....

http://www.dailytele...i-1111118530255

Quote

AUSTRALIA'S top-selling mouthwashes can cause oral cancer and should be pulled from supermarket shelves immediately. Leading independent experts have issued this strong warning after investigating latest scientific evidence linking alcohol-containing mouthwashes to the deadly disease.

Their review, published in the Dental Journal of Australia, concludes there is now ``sufficient evidence'' that "alcohol-containing mouthwashes contribute to the increased risk of development of oral cancer''.

The ethanol in mouthwash is thought to allow cancer-causing substances to permeate the lining of the mouth more easily and cause harm.

Acetaldehyde, a toxic by-product of alcohol that may accumulate in the oral cavity when swished around the mouth, is also believed to be carcinogenic.

Listerine, the nation's biggest-selling mouthwash and a brand endorsed by the Australian Dental Association (ADA), contains as much as 26 per cent alcohol.

And regarding there being no safe level of alcohol consumption.....

http://www.abc.net.a...ed/1479126.html

Quote

She and her doctor might want to rethink their views, given recent Cancer Council guidelines which now state there is no safe level of alcohol consumption. The Council's chief executive Professor Ian Olver has revised his previous stance about moderate consumption in the light of new evidence, and now regards alcohol as ''one of the most carcinogenic products in common use''.

doG, on 16 December 2011 - 01:07 AM, said:

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnttttttttt!!!! Wrong answer. You said, "Recent studies have indicated that there is no safe level of consumption of alcoholic beverages." Not only does your link not support your claim, it doesn't even address it. Sorry, no winner this time, please try again.

Sure about that?

Quote

Alcohol also increases the risk of cancers of the mouth, esophagus, pharynx and larynx

http://www.sciencefo...209&qpid=644986

Quote

Three preparations of chlorhexidine-digluconate were analysed for contamination with a newly developed high-pressure liquid chromatographic method. Of special interest was p-chloroaniline, a toxic as well as a carcinogenic compound. We found concentrations from 1.7 to 8.5 mmol p-chloroaniline per mol chlorhexidine-digluconate, i.e. five-fold differences in the different products. Besides p-chloroaniline many other contaminating substances were found, amongst others p-chlorophenyl-isocyanate and p-chlorophenyl-carbodiimide. The least contamination was found in a branded article, and the highest degree of contamination in a "no-name"-product. During a storage period of half a year in dark glass bottles in a solution of 0.2% under various light and temperature values the p-chloroaniline concentrations increased linearly with the period of storage, with the exception of storage in the dark at 5 degrees C. A constant temperature of 35 degrees C in the dark caused a greater increase than storing at 20-25 degrees C in the dark or the light or in direct sunlight. Therefore under similar conditions it is mostly warmth which causes an increase in toxic compounds.

Consider if your mouth wash contains both ethanol and chlorohexidine.










There a signficant tax on alcoholic beverages, but doesn't that extend other products that contain ethanol in a drinkable form.

For example the alcoholic essences in the baking isles of supermarkets were being used a cheap source of alcohol by youths but governments have since extended that tax to these items. With the result that the manufactures no longer use ethanol as a base for these essences. Is my recollection correct here?

In which case manufactures of mouth washes would use alternative alcohols if they could. Probably why mouth washes are rather expensive.

This post has been edited by Greg Boyles: 16 December 2011 - 09:40 AM

[doG]

Greg Boyles, on 16 December 2011 - 08:40 AM, said:

Sure about that?

Yes. You've linked to an opinion in a news report. A review of the actual position of the Cancer Council on alcohol does not support the assertion that there is no safe level. You specifically claimed, "Recent studies have indicated that there is no safe level of consumption of alcoholic beverages." Now, where are those studies?

This post has been edited by doG: 16 December 2011 - 12:27 PM

[Greg Boyles]

doG, on 16 December 2011 - 12:27 PM, said:

Yes. You've linked to an opinion in a news report. A review of the actual position of the Cancer Council on alcohol does not support the assertion that there is no safe level. You specifically claimed, "Recent studies have indicated that there is no safe level of consumption of alcoholic beverages." Now, where are those studies?

Fair enough.

htp://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100729075015.htm

But on further digging it would appear that this message was specifically concerned with teenage binge drinking, and pregnant woman also, but was being applied more generally.

Another lesson in not taking for granted what is said in the media even when they quote credible souces.

This post has been edited by Greg Boyles: 16 December 2011 - 12:55 PM