[granadina]

Came across this line referring to Freud's method of treatment -

' Lying down promotes a loss of control that encourages more instinctive conversation . '


If true , what could be the Neurological basis for the change effected by the Posture .


Thanks .

[PhDwannabe]

There likely isn't one, because he wasn't correct. Empirical science has not borne out the vast majority of the specific assumptions of his clinical methods, many of which have been long-abandoned, or maintained in practice by only small groups of clinicians.

[granadina]

PhDwannabe, on 1 October 2011 - 07:52 PM, said:

There likely isn't one, because he wasn't correct. Empirical science has not borne out the vast majority of the specific assumptions of his clinical methods, many of which have been long-abandoned, or maintained in practice by only small groups of clinicians.

Even if we exclude ' Freud ' , it can't be denied that lying down helps to relax the body and the mind .

Once the conscious controls are lowered , can it be said that the ' instincts ' tend to take over ?

And can this ' process ' be explained through ' changes in the Brain ' yet ?

[PhDwannabe]

Quote

Once the conscious controls are lowered , can it be said that the ' instincts ' tend to take over ?

No.

Quote

And can this ' process ' be explained through ' changes in the Brain ' yet ?

And no.

[granadina]

I'm trying to find more about how the Brain adjusts itself ' away from a waking reality ' , even when it is far from the inaction called sleep .


Your brief and authoritative answers seem to be of little help .

This post has been edited by granadina: 3 October 2011 - 07:29 PM

[Dekan]

granadina, on 1 October 2011 - 07:01 PM, said:

Came across this line referring to Freud's method of treatment -

' Lying down promotes a loss of control that encourages more instinctive conversation . '


If true , what could be the Neurological basis for the change effected by the Posture .


Thanks .

Could the neurological basis be, that our brain receives a better supply of blood, when we're lying down. Because the blood doesn't have to get pumped "uphill", as it does when we're standing upright.

This increased blood supply, must improve the brain's performance. And this might generate new thoughts, and open the the mind to insightful ideas, which might not occur in everyday vertical mode.

Didn't a poet once write something like:

"And oft when on my couch I lie, in vacant or in pensive mood....."

He had an insight into the ideational benefits of the couch. Freud may have cottoned on to this.

Of course, there could be a cruder explanation for the couch in psychoanalysis. It's to impress the patient. Suppose the patient was just sitting in a chair, when interviewed by the shrink. That would be very ordinary. Whereas - if the shrink makes the patient lie down on a big leather couch, doesn't that make the patient think something special is happening - which justifies the shrink's huge fee?

[PhDwannabe]

Quote

Could the neurological basis be, that our brain receives a better supply of blood, when we're lying down. Because the blood doesn't have to get pumped "uphill", as it does when we're standing upright.

This increased blood supply, must improve the brain's performance. And this might generate new thoughts, and open the the mind to insightful ideas, which might not occur in everyday vertical mode.

Is this satire? I really want to believe that this is some sort of humorous allusion to something out of Galen or Hippocrates I'm just not erudite enough to recognize. If this--gods preserve us--actually isn't satire, I'm just going to go ahead and clear this up:

This is not in the neighborhood of the area of the general realm of how cerebral blood flow affects cognition. This explanation is absolutely, categorically, 170%, not right. It is not capable of existing on the same planet as right. It is parsecs away from right. I cannot emphasize enough how far from plausible this is.

[granadina]

Dekan, on 7 October 2011 - 02:56 PM, said:

Could the neurological basis be, that our brain receives a better supply of blood, when we're lying down. Because the blood doesn't have to get pumped "uphill", as it does when we're standing upright.

This increased blood supply, must improve the brain's performance. And this might generate new thoughts, and open the the mind to insightful ideas, which might not occur in everyday vertical mode.

There are Physical Exercises essentially for ' a better blood supply ' to the Brain .

' The constriction of micro-vessels of the brain is the cause of bad brain's blood supply. It is the source of such illnesses as dizziness, insomnia, migraine, a memory weakness. '

You are right .
Perhaps we can find more ' Neurological ' explanations in time .

[PhDwannabe]

Quote

There are Physical Exercises essentially for ' a better blood supply ' to the Brain .

' The constriction of micro-vessels of the brain is the cause of bad brain's blood supply. It is the source of such illnesses as dizziness, insomnia, migraine, a memory weakness. '

OK, let me make sure I've got this. You wanted a neurological explanation for a phenomenon that essentially isn't neurologically verified. Someone suggests--astoundingly--that increased blood flow to the brain upon lying down would "generate new thoughts" and insight in some clinically recognizable and significant manner. You agree with this, and to support it, you copy/paste stuff from an awkwardly translated advertisement for some Lithuanian quack medical device--which, mind you, doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking about--that some interested party named Boris is busy wallpapering all over the internet. I'm going to go ahead and register myself as thus far sort of uncompelled by this particular line of reasoning.

[granadina]

Quote

You wanted a neurological explanation for a phenomenon that essentially isn't neurologically verified.

If it helps someone to read a book of philosophy , and they are curious to learn how the chemical changes in the brain affect this process , they are wasting their time because ' This is not neurologically verified ' !

I can't even call myself a student of Neuroscience ; does that mean I should refrain from seeking help in science forums , for fear that someone may ridicule my poor knowledge ?

If the Mods feel the topic is Irrelevant , let them remove it .
But your kind of response only serves to creep some new member out .

This post has been edited by granadina: 9 October 2011 - 04:50 AM

[Appolinaria]

there are correlations between how someone sleeps & their personality type.

http://news.bbc.co.u...lth/3112170.stm


since our personality can influence our position while lying down, maybe it can work the other way around?


if we're forced to recline in a naturally vulnerable position, without our hands subconsciously giving signals & without using our normal body language, then we do have some sort of loss of control over our usual movements... perhaps this also transfers into our thought processes at the time....

This post has been edited by Appolinaria: 9 October 2011 - 08:06 AM

[Psycho]

Appolinaria, on 9 October 2011 - 05:10 AM, said:

there are correlations between how someone sleeps & their personality type.

http://news.bbc.co.u...lth/3112170.stm


since our personality can influence our position while lying down, maybe it can work the other way around?


if we're forced to recline in a naturally vulnerable position, without our hands subconsciously giving signals & without using our normal body language, then we do have some sort of loss of control over our usual movements... perhaps this also transfers into our thought processes at the time....

It isn't so much the personality influencing the position, it is more the mood and mindset of that person that does it. The same processes occur when awake all the time you change your stance and posture depending on the people you meet and you can watch people change their movements while agreeing and disagreeing with statements made.

Who says you still don't give body language signals when you are lying down, not to mention how would people know they have lost control over their movements when most don't even know how to interpret body language, if anything lying down would cause a new patient to feel exposed and close up their responses.

[granadina]

Quote

if we're forced to recline in a naturally vulnerable position, without our hands subconsciously giving signals & without using our normal body language, then we do have some sort of loss of control over our usual movements... perhaps this also transfers into our thought processes at the time....

There's admittedly ' loss of control ' due to alcohol .
The delicate balance of the brain activity gets altered , but many questions remain about the effects of alcohol on this delicate balance .

The beneficial effects of physical exercise on the brain have been successfully observed .
How lack of physical activity can enhance ' latent ' impulses / thoughts / feelings .. is the question .

[Appolinaria]

Psycho, on 9 October 2011 - 11:03 AM, said:

It isn't so much the personality influencing the position, it is more the mood and mindset of that person that does it. The same processes occur when awake all the time you change your stance and posture depending on the people you meet and you can watch people change their movements while agreeing and disagreeing with statements made.

Who says you still don't give body language signals when you are lying down, not to mention how would people know they have lost control over their movements when most don't even know how to interpret body language, if anything lying down would cause a new patient to feel exposed and close up their responses.

Oh, that makes more sense.

[granadina]

Quote

Who says you still don't give body language signals when you are lying down, not to mention how would people know they have lost control over their movements when most don't even know how to interpret body language, if anything lying down would cause a new patient to feel exposed and close up their responses.

So perhaps the essential factor in ' loss of control ' would be the connection , rapport .. one has with the other person ?
( Why do we say - lower one's guard ! )

However , the situation would be different if you are alone ?

This post has been edited by granadina: 10 October 2011 - 02:10 PM