[gib65]

For those who don't know, ayahuasca is a medicinal beverage with a long history among the amazonian shamans of central and south america. It typically consists of two brews which can be taken separately (one after the other) or mixed together. The first is a brew made from simmering the MAOI containing vine Banisteriopsis caapi in warm water, and the second is made the same way (simmering in warm water) with any of a variety of N,N-DMT containing plants (psychotria viridis, diplopterys cabrerana, mimosa hostilis, etc.). The caapi is important because without an MAOI, the N,N-DMT containing plant will not be psychoactive.

At the site www.ayahuasca.com, there is a quote that describes the experience as follows:

"It is an X-ray machine, not only of the health, but of the virtue, maturity, humility, and equilibrium of the person. Since very few of us are saints, the shock between what you think yourself to be and what you really are produces strong reactions... The truth is not that yajé is too strong for us, but that we are too weak for it... [It] is a battle and the field of combat is in your guts... All you have to do is to let the vine carry out its work, but without a sufficient experience... you are stuck between the nausea and your fear, which produces an unbearable anguish, because it is a nightmare that seems to have no end. The evil spirits that you see in this fix, which are reflections of the battle between the true and false self, take on a life of their own, so as well as the physical pain and distress of self-recognition, you have to deal with monsters.... The feedback between [the drinker's] fear and the fire in the guts drives the suffering into a spiraling descent, a circle so vicious and dizzying that he sometimes believes it will terminate in death.... There were still times when the terror was absolute, instants of dread that I will carry to my grave." -- Jimmy Weiskopf

source: http://forums.ayahua...hp?f=12&t=13107

Nonetheless, those who have gone through the experience swear by its healing power and many claim that their lives are better off for it. The shamans who practice the use of ayahuasca 'dreaming' (as they call it) are fully convinced that the plants involved are alive with spirit and communicate with the user and indeed are responsible for the "unbearable anguish" the subject undergoes.

My question is this: what would a trained doctor in modern western (i.e. North American or European) think of this? Would he/she ever give credence to this practice or the practitioner's claims? I mean, first of all, both brews (the caapi and the DMT containing one) make one sick to the stomach and with enough will result in vomiting. Any doctor from the western tradition would take that as a sign that you are ingesting something that isn't good for you. Then there's the psychological toll: these are truly hellish experiences and can result in PTSD. Again, doesn't look good from a modern western perspective. Also, taking MAOIs is not like eating candy. Those who practice ayahuasca drinking properly know that there is a rigid diet to be followed at least a day before and after the consumption of ayahuasca. If this diet is not followed, the subject may suffer from hypertension, intense headache, and in rare cases death. Finally, the plain fact is that it's a drug! Marijuana or acid can give you profound spiritually uplifting and life changing experiences. Does that mean doctors should go ahead and recommend it to people like they do health food and exercise?

Now I don't mean to convey any disrespect to other cultures' traditions, beliefs, or practices, but I see no reason not to allow myself to be disillusioned here. They are a culture, one among the world's plethora of them, and like any culture around the world and throughout history, they have their own beliefs, values, spirituality, practices, and if there's one thing that history teaches, it's that cultures can be... well, they can be wrong. They can be dramatically wrong.

So from a modern western scientific perspective, how would medical experts look upon the practice and taking ayahuasca?

[Shelley Watson]

I've heard about ayahuasca. But I actually don't know about it's reality. It has a lot of importance as it's highly associated with traditions, myths, therapies, rituals and aesthetics. It's roots are at the indigenous tribes of South America and has diverse to various places through various spiritual movements. There must be some reality in this, otherwise it hadn't taken such deep roots all across the world.

[tickle]

atoms couldnt be confirmed until the technology needed to accept them existed. who is to say that these drugs you speak of cannot do what the cultures say they can. we know very little about our existence believe it or not. we arent even sure where or what time we are really in. the big bang obviously happened, but what in reality was the big bang anyway? what time was it, and what was the universe before that happened? what complexities exist within the spectrum of laws that we have now? just because we cannot detect something invisible doen't mean that it isnt there! there may be alot to learn. i admit it sounds like fantasy, but i wouldnt think it sounded any stranger to hear of a round planet within my flat planet thinking really. we dont really know anything yet so why should so many hypothesis be thrown wayside? worm holes, why not, traveling through time, maybe, different realms or dimensions of reality, no way, it sounds hypocritical.

[Ayahuasca]

I lived with Ayahuasca shamans in a few different locations.... I even knew a formally trained Ph.D doctor who was also a shaman, who used natural medicines primarily in conjunction with crystals and other electromagnetic healing techniques... I watched this doctor heal cancer within a day using electromagnetic therapy and shamanic techniques.... I have taken the medicine myself a number of times myself and have experience... it is profound medicine, it will give you what you need to heal so long as you use it in the right way.... I also advocate LSD and Mushrooms as ways to glimpse profound spiritual states and communion with nature.... especially when used ceremonially or during mediation!

The realization is that the shamans in the amazon who are giving ayahuasca have healing techniques which are beyond that of western medicine, which is primarily limited to the use of external aids or substances aside from basic health advice which is natural......

The shaman can just sit with someone and take them into other realms of consciousness, even without external aids... you just sit there in trance and it happens, it is far outside of the boundaries of western medicine which survives only by destroying other life forms through the use of synthetic medications or aids which deprive the natural balance of life.... as a shaman I would tell you that western medicine itself is dangerous, and that using prescribed medications or entrusting your health to anyone outside of yourself or a qualified holistic healer is probably going to kill you in the long run, because you choosing a system which is based off of death instead of the forces which are harmonious to life..... all synthetic medications are coming from the destruction of the natural world and the rape/pillage of the earth....

If you want to do ayahuasca you could check out the Temple of the Way of Light which is a center in Peru where there are some number of qualified shamans who are giving dedicated ayahuasca ceremonies, which are female healers... in any event, it is a good medicine...... it helps you... you have to be in balance with nature, the reason people get sick on ayahuasca is because you are out of balance with nature.... Ayahuasca is a medicine because it shows you these imbalances, and brings them to the surface... if it kills you, then it is time to die... it is just like this... it won't kill anyone who is harmonious with nature..... it is only the people in the west who get sick from life that need ayahuasca to die.... it is like this....

The reality of course, is that it will most likely only make you vomit so long as you are intelligent and void the foods which are going to cause reactions which include anything containing Tyramine.... I can find a link for you of a list of foods which promote reactions... advertising links removed by Moderator, the second link here has more scientific explanations of the interactions with the MAOI chemicals and such which are contained inside of the brew..... it is best to eat very simple for some number of days before hand... at least 1-3..., or even fasting is ok... juice/water.... the traditional diet says plain fish without seasoning, yucca root, plantain, and rice are good foods which are indigenous to the regions in the amazon where it is growing.... normally never more than 4 foods combined, no seasonings, and all from the local areas which are prepared.... Of course most of the amazon is busy being butchered and slaughtered as we speak..... I have a non-profit charity which I am using as a vehicle to alleviate such things you can donate money by private messaging me....

In any event, most of these tribes which practice the natural Ayahuasca traditions were systematically eradicated by people who chose to feed their life into a machine instead of nature.... touche' computer.... eating the soul alive, gotta love it!

This post has been edited by Phi for All: 23 February 2012 - 03:49 PM
Reason for edit: Advertising links removed

[Keenidiot]

You live in nature, survive to 30, 40 years of hard living and avoiding what ever's trying to kill you. Whether it's disease or predators or starvation.

I'm quite happy to have a life expectancy of 70-80 years and the ability to go camping, thank you.