[ydoaPs]

Why do people no longer fight with honor? They usually have a conversation like "well, my ____ is bigger and stronger than your ___." They bring anyone that they think can help them. They even use weapons. Is it just me, or should a fight be between the two people the conflict was between?

[5614]

well firstly, thats what children do!

also, with 'normal' people, they will fight their own 'conflicts' to use your own word, however, when it comes to politics, there are armies to do the fighting for you

[RICHARDBATTY]

I know exactly what you mean. My neighbours are a perfect example of this moronic behavior. I got a job four years ago as an engineer. It came with a car which made it look good but the money isn't. They became very unpleasant over time as I got pay rises and new cars etc and my wife who used to be friends with the women next door told her about it while walking to and from school. They got very jealous but would have looked a bit daft saying so. They instead decided that our dryer was very loud and was preventing them sleeping even when it wasn't on. :D They then had family and friends turning up causing bother started a slander campain with other people on the street tried frightening the kids everything they could think of.

[Gilded]

"Why do people no longer fight with honor?"

Ahh, reminds me of the good old samurai. They had some other nice habits too, like preferring sex with other samurai over sex with women...

[Phi for All]

Gilded said:

They had some other nice habits too, like preferring sex with other samurai over sex with women...

Those weren't the samurai, those were the "thamurai", thweety! j/k

Honor does seem to have gone out the door in favor of competition these days. It is more important to win any way you can rather than to win fairly. I think it's linked with low self-esteem, since honor is something you carry on the inside, and winning at all costs is an external sort of gratification. It's crazy, but it's rampant in politics, sports, business, you name it.

[Gilded]

Some honor in warfare is still present though, or that's what I'd call internationally trying to prevent the use of nuclear and biological weapons.

[tu.dents]

people seem to be used to having others do things for them. whats behind the question? Whats happened ........ who be fighten round her Ill kik ther a.,; fer ya' LOL get it? Seriously why are you asking.

[YT2095]

yourdadonapogos said:

Why do people no longer fight with honor? should a fight be between the two people the conflict was between?

even that, nowadays is without honor.
when I was taught to fight as a young boy, there were rules!
no kicking (esp in the nuts).
never attack when your opponent is on the floor.
biting or scratching were for Girls only.
and weapons NEVER came into it.

sadly I didn`t win many fights, but I kept my Honor! and that felt good even if the rest of me didn`t :)

[Sayonara³]

Honour disappeared the day parents began teaching children to worship the self.

[YT2095]

True!

many of todays parents and most of todays kids know more about their `Rights` than their `Responsibilities`!

[Glider]

Fighting has nothing to do with honour, simply by virtue of the fact that it proves nothing. Fighting cannot win arguments, nor can it make a point. The only result is that the loser is no longer in a position to present their case, but winning does not make the winner right.

Armies and politics aside, the only rationale for fighting is in defence (of one's self). Where there is a clear threat to one's physical safety and running is not an option (e.g. you are trapped or surrounded), then fighting is the last recourse.

Under these circumstances, you are not fighting to win points or to prove a case. There is no such thing as a 'technical knockout' or 'winning by points' and Queensberry rules do not apply. The objective is simply to preserve yourself. To achieve that objective, any and all means are acceptable. Whatever method works, whatever is at hand, whatever it takes, use it. You don't get points for coming second. The probability is that you won't have the option of being magnanimous in defeat and congratulating the victor on a fight well fought. There is a high probability that you will be badly injured though. The bar-fights you see in the old westerns just don't happen. They probably never did. It's not a game.

If you are attacked, you have a choice, run (preferred) or fight. If you choose to fight, have no further choices, you are committed. You have to put your opponent down; render them into a state where they are no longer a threat so you can get away, and you are committed to using any and all measures required to do that.

The best option of all is to avoid the situation in the first place.

Edit: I agree with the last posts by Sayonara and YT.

[Bernstein]

Quote

True!

many of todays parents and most of todays kids know more about their `Rights` than their `Responsibilities`!

People are more selfish today as a result of political hegemony extolling the virtues of the prevailing neo-fascist, neo conservative ideologies. The virtues of which are namely Greed, Reactionary BS, and War.

Bring back communism! Quick we need a balance to this increasing rightwingism!

[YT2095]

Quote

Fighting has nothing to do with honour, simply by virtue of the fact that it proves nothing. Fighting cannot win arguments, nor can it make a point. The only result is that the loser is no longer in a position to present their case, but winning does not make the winner right.

Armies and politics aside, the only rationale for fighting is in defence (of one's self). Where there is a clear threat to one's physical safety and running is not an option (e.g. you are trapped or surrounded), then fighting is the last recourse.

Under these circumstances, you are not fighting to win points or to prove a case. There is no such thing as a 'technical knockout' or 'winning by points' and Queensberry rules do not apply. The objective is simply to preserve yourself. To achieve that objective, any and all means are acceptable. Whatever method works, whatever is at hand, whatever it takes, use it. You don't get points for coming second. The probability is that you won't have the option of being magnanimous in defeat and congratulating the victor on a fight well fought. There is a high probability that you will be badly injured though. The bar-fights you see in the old westerns just don't happen. They probably never did. It's not a game.

If you are attacked, you have a choice, run (preferred) or fight. If you choose to fight, have no further choices, you are committed. You have to put your opponent down; render them into a state where they are no longer a threat so you can get away, and you are committed to using any and all measures required to do that.

The best option of all is to avoid the situation in the first place.

Edit: I agree with the last posts by Sayonara and YT.

that`s all well and good, but as a young lad at school being picked on rotten because of having a strange accent, or being called a "limey" or just because you`re a bit "Nerdish", fights come your way thick and fast and on a regular inescapable basis!
yes I used to run where possible, but that would only delay the inevitable!
and so after being bullied so badly, I asked to be taught how to fight.
there`s no Dis-Honor in that!

[Glider]

Quote

that`s all well and good, but as a young lad at school being picked on rotten because of having a strange accent, or being called a "limey" or just because you`re a bit "Nerdish", fights come your way thick and fast and on a regular inescapable basis!
yes I used to run where possible, but that would only delay the inevitable!
and so after being bullied so badly, I asked to be taught how to fight.
there`s no Dis-Honor in that!

It's a bummer being bullied at school, I agree (I was, once), but nothing here warrents a 'but' concerning my previous post. Being taught how to fight is a good thing, at least for its benefit to your confidence, but in practical application, it simply helps you achieve the objective I stated in my post more efficiently. Fighting and honour are still not related.

[YT2095]

perhaps honor and self respect are interchangeable in this instance? or maybe both apply?

you see I was taught this way, and made a promise never to fight like "they" did and to fight Properly. and so, I kept my word, even though it still cost me alot of pain because I knew I was doing the "right" thing regardless of how tempting it was to take advantage on the VERY odd occasion where I could.

and so I kept my honor AND my self respect :)
that`s where I`m coming from.

[ydoaPs]

in different situations, honor can be interchangeable with integrity or self-respect.

[LucidDreamer]

Honor is a concept derived from the warrior-code of warlike societies. Soldiers who have a great sense of honor are more effective. They are likely to fight harder and less likely to run when things get tough. Honor is a kind of moral code for those that make a career out of war. Young men who observe these men of honor respect them and desire to be more like them, which makes recruiting much easier. Not only is honor useful for the leaders that wage war it is also useful for the soldiers who feel that their lives or the sacrifice of their lives has value and meaning. The concept of honor is replaced by ethics, morals, or self-respect, as others have pointed out, in a more peaceful environment.

[YT2095]

I disagree there with some of it.

Honor is being TRUE to yourself, maintaining your core philosophies and beliefs when all else around you does it`s best to make you do otherwise.

making a promise and sticking to it is honorable (keeping to your word).

I maintain that if a REAL MAN! is stripped of everything has nothing else and stands stark naked on the top of a mountain in the middle of nowhere, the only thing that cannot be taken away is his honor and his word!

there are some things that NO ONE can take from you :)

[tu.dents]

I dont think that there is any shame in seeking to learn how to protect your self, and maybe useing that. YT has a point in that keeping your core philosophies and values in mind especialy in the face of threat.

It took a long time for me to keep my real values in mind in the face of bullies, racist, and various other induviduals.

All I could see was a bully or a racist rather than the troubled mind that is trying to exspress its self.
A few years ago I lived in a a town that has a strong KKK org. I am a native america that had gone through nothing but foster care my whole life, I had a lot of hate and a lot of fights.
My girl friend, now wife, was driving through a parking lot and parked. A "skin head" of substantial size came running at her saying we drove to close to him. After a few slurrs he approached me. Choose A: take her hand walk in to the store. B:Beat him down for the hell of it. I chose B Thought it was great until I looked up and saw his wife and kids Yelling at "dad" to get in the van.

Being true to my self alows me to be true to others nearly effortlessly. I am by no means a immoveable rock. The pebble needs only to be as stable as the rock it rest on.

[boris_73]

people do still fight with honour sadly to say it i had a fight with one of my friends and i knocked him on the ground no wepons, nobody else involved ect, and i saw he had a bloody nose, so i helped him up, and i took him some where to clean it up, and we are still friends, infact straight after he got cleand up we were friends, that's fighting with honour, now this will not apply to all fight's eg not fighting between friends, being mugged ect, in that case like gilder said anything applys to stop them being a threat, i would disagree at using a wepon because that is cowardly unless they have a wepon, but considering most fights are between friends or someone you know, fighting without honour is not necessary, and i dislike people who do fight without honour, i hate the people who fight without honour, and look for fights i can not stand people who do that