[ydoaPs]

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The Dilburt in the beginning is rather revealing of the layman's view of Free Will.

This post has been edited by ydoaPs: 11 July 2010 - 08:45 PM

[Genecks]

I watched about 20 minutes of it. But in general, I don't think police officers or judges are the most philosophical of people. Judges have more education than police officers, for sure.

Either way, watching the video has reminded me of a scientific reason you see systems of incarceration still around: There is a B.F. Skinner style to them, such that they attempt to change and alter the behaviour of individuals who land there.

Nonetheless, I think the modern prison system is ineffective. And to make it effective would cost a lot of money. And I think society would be putting in more money to make prisons like schools in order to change people for the better.

So, unfortunately, it will be economics that determine whether or not people decide to change the system for which behavior is rewarded and/or penalized.

People penalize others with jail/prison in an attempt to change behavior. I'm very sure judges and police understand that the system is ineffective.

[pioneer]

One of the problems faced by the modern prison system is the large number of victimless criminals. If there is no victim relative to one's behavior, the rational mind does not see a crime, since it lacks the cause and effect (criminal/victim) associated with a valid crime. The irrational mind, on the other hand, can see cause without effect. What makes rehab difficult for such subjective crimes is the system needs to turn rational minds, irrational, so they can see the emperor's new clothes. Even of he is naked in a rational sense of crime/victim, one needs to see clothes or else the rehab is not working properly.

For example, oranges are a snack that is good for you. Someone in power gets a paper cut and experiences a burning feeling, while peeling the orange due to the paper cut. They then decide oranges are evil and they need to protect everyone from this painful fruit. This may sound good to the irrational mind, since he appears to be trying to help us. We then create an orange prohibition. At the rational level eating an orange is not a rational crime since the cause and effect of crime and victim is not there. But as a subjective crime, where where cause and effect can break down, and oranges can attack you like pit bulls, this seems irrationally justified. To satisfy the cause and effect of a crime, we need both criminals and victims. The state acts as the criminal creating objective victims out of those who are in violation of a irrational crime. The system needs to brainwash these victims into irrationality, so they admit be the criminals.

The government has spent zillions dealing with victimless crime and it only gets worse and not better. The reason is the rational mind will ignore the irrational and the victims of this irrationality will defy the criminals who constantly try to victimize them and brainwash them to be the scape goat.

Real rational crimes tend to stay closer to steady state, while irrational crimes tend to escalate as rational victims resist the legal criminals. Better rehab would address the rational legal criminals who justify themselves within the context of an irrational crime.

[Severian]

pioneer, on 16 July 2010 - 03:14 PM, said:

One of the problems faced by the modern prison system is the large number of victimless criminals.

I agree with you, but I think you need to be careful to distinguish between immorality and legality. The victimless crimes very often (with some exceptions) shouldn't be illegal, but that doesn't stop them being immoral.