[60minutes]

(SKY NEWS - official vid)
from the article: ... A Zero point magnetic power generator is basically a Free Energy Generator. It uses magnets, and magnetic force to induce perpetual motion. It runs by itself, indefinitely without stopping, thus creating completely free electrical energy... A Perpetual motion device refers to a machine that runs perpetually i.e. indefinitely, and produces a larger amount of energy than it consumes. Thus, it produces free energy indefinitely, runs by itself, without having to need a third-party device or resource to power it...

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

[swansont]

There is no free energy. In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics.


The ususal problem with the "makes more than it produces" claims is incorrect measurement — they never seem to plug it into itself to show that it works; it always has an external input. Why? I predict that the sales of these units will never come to pass. (And the reporter talks about producing 24 kW per day. Ugh. Unit fail.)


The video ad is a scam to separate you from $100

This post has been edited by swansont: 16 August 2009 - 08:58 AM

[John Cuthber]

What's that stuff doing on a science website?

[Klaynos]

Using "magnets and a battery"...

I recall seeing a perpetual motion machine that you needed to plug into the mains to power the lift to move the marbles back up to the top...

[60minutes]

Klaynos said:

Using "magnets and a battery"...

I recall seeing a perpetual motion machine that you needed to plug into the mains to power the lift to move the marbles back up to the top...

Does anyone here have working unit? Any takers on their sales?

I'm curious to know if its true. With this economy, I dont' have $100 to throw around on something new like this.

But if anyone does have one working in their backyard, please post here with pix and quick review. I will it a try too

Many thanks!

[Fuzzwood]

:doh:

Why would it be called perpetual if it needs an external energy input for it to run. That sort of COMPLETELY misses the point of a machine being perpetual.

[mooeypoo]

Fswd said:

:doh:

Why would it be called perpetual if it needs an external energy input for it to run. That sort of COMPLETELY misses the point of a machine being perpetual.

Because that sells more?

[timo]

60minutes said:

I'm curious to know if its true. With this economy, I dont' have $100 to throw around on something new like this.

You'd better invest it in some Nigerian scammer ring, anyways. Their stories are in accordance with the known behavior of nature (not the human nature, though), at least.

[swansont]

60minutes said:

Does anyone here have working unit?

No. I can guarantee you that nobody has a working unit.

[60minutes]

swansont said:

No. I can guarantee you that nobody has a working unit.

skeptics who say you cannot get more energy output that you put in: what is resonance? if you walk into a small room and sing a note at the resonant frequency of the room, you can see for yourself that the sound is amplified. louder means more energy! sure the surplus energy comes from somewhere, but resonant systems like the phonograph or the tesla coil simply exploit this phenomenon. just because you've studied established physics doesn't mean nothing else will ever be possible!!

[insane_alien]

with a resonant system you have to put in energy faster than it is taken out of the system.

the only thing with resonant systems is that you put the energy in in controlled little bursts which eventually build up to have a larger effect with respect to the amount of energy you put in at a time.

no energy appears from nowhere.

[swansont]

60minutes said:

skeptics who say you cannot get more energy output that you put in: what is resonance? if you walk into a small room and sing a note at the resonant frequency of the room, you can see for yourself that the sound is amplified. louder means more energy! sure the surplus energy comes from somewhere, but resonant systems like the phonograph or the tesla coil simply exploit this phenomenon. just because you've studied established physics doesn't mean nothing else will ever be possible!!

If the energy comes from somewhere, it's not perpetual motion.

[Edtharan]

60minutes said:

skeptics who say you cannot get more energy output that you put in: what is resonance? if you walk into a small room and sing a note at the resonant frequency of the room, you can see for yourself that the sound is amplified. louder means more energy! sure the surplus energy comes from somewhere, but resonant systems like the phonograph or the tesla coil simply exploit this phenomenon. just because you've studied established physics doesn't mean nothing else will ever be possible!!

A Swing is a good example of a resonant system. If you push the swing at it resonant frequency, you only need little pushes and it will build up to a massive amplitude.

However, with a swing, there is very little friction between the ropes and the cross bar, and air resistance is not all that great at that speed. So very little energy is lost from the system (bit it still is). As long as the amount of energy put into the system is greater than the energy lost from the system, then you can build up a large amplitude on the swing.

Now, try this experiment (even if just done as a thought experiment).

If you have two identical swings and with one you push with your hands at a normal effort, but on the other you only tap the swing with a feather. You do this both at the resonant frequency of the swing.

Will both swings have larger and larger amplitude? Or will only the swing you push with your hands get higher?

The thing is, just tapping a swing with a feather will cause it to move, but it won't give it a lot of energy. This smaller amount of energy will easily be lost to friction and air resistance. So even if you were to push this swing at the resonant frequency, it won't build up to a high swing.

You need at least enough energy to just over come the amount of energy lost between the resonant pushes. If you don't, then by the time the swing comes back to you for the next push, it has lost all the energy you initially put into it and you have to start again at 0 energy.

When you have these kinds of machines that claim to be able to make energy from resonant effects, they are making the big mistake that assumes that if you put energy into a resonant system you get more energy out of it.

This might seem true, but that is only because most people only think about the amount of energy they last put into the system (the last push of the swing so to speak). They forget that they had to put in all those other pushes to get the swing to that height, and that some of this energy is lost to the inefficiencies of the system (friction, etc).

Even with 0 friction (or 0 electrical resistance as in a super conductor), you can only get out with you put in. Super conductors do not make more energy that is put in to them, just as a swing does not flip 360 degrees at the touch of a feather.

[baxtonduglonn]

Radio transmitters use resonant circuits to ensure the output is on the correct frequency. The power output to the antenna is always much less than is supplied to the final amplifier. If it was more, you could just use some of the extra power to drive the transmitter and power your house at the same time.

Just because there is a video on YouTube, or elsewhere, does not prove any scientific concept, it just shows that some people can make videos and some people are gullible enough to believe anything if it sounds good to them.

[padren]

You'd have more luck signing up for a program that gives you a special formula for a ratio of pennies, quarters, nickels, dimes and dollars into a box, shake it, and get more money out than you put in.
No matter how much resonance or magnetic fields are involved you won't get more back out, but at least you will still get out what you put in.



Edit:
Why is it that a concept such as that no ratio of coins can spontaneously create freshly minted money is easy to understand and grasp, but people are so skeptical that the same would apply to energy?

[60minutes]

There is a home made working sample of the generator:

http://www.33energy.com/magnetic_generator_atwork_video.html

Can anyone explain how and why it works? magic.. :)

[JillSwift]

60minutes said:

There is a home made working sample of the generator:

http://www.33energy.com/magnetic_generator_atwork_video.html

Can anyone explain how and why it works? magic.. :)

First, we need some evidence that it works.

Do the experiment. Build the little booger. I predict you'll find four letters swimming about:

• H
  
• O
  
• A
  
• X

[insane_alien]

well, you can make massive coil in you'r loft to get energy from radiowaves. only provides usable amounts of power if you live really close to a powerful radio antenna though. and they'll notice and beable to track you down and then prosecute you.

free energy doesn't exist. best you can do is breakeven. but thats impossible too.

[A Tripolation]

Once people that have learned a little physics realize that a moving magnetic field creates electricity, they think they can make their own perpetual motion machine.

Like IA said, the absolute BEST we could do is break-even, and even that is near to impossible. It would require frictionless surfaces and superconductors, and be very very very hard to do.

[JillSwift]

A Tripolation said:

Once people that have learned a little physics realize that a moving magnetic field creates electricity, they think they can make their own perpetual motion machine.

Like IA said, the absolute BEST we could do is break-even, and even that is near to impossible. It would require frictionless surfaces and superconductors, and be very very very hard to do.

Given that this stuff is all couched in the larger system of energy available to us - any energy spent in creating the device makes it a net loss to the overall system even if you can manage a subsystem that breaks even.