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how much does skinning alive hurt? [Answered: LOTS]


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#1 Dak

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 04:25 PM

WARNING extremely graphic video:

apparently, in china animals are skinned alive because it's easyer to remove the fur whilst they're alive.

now... my initial reaction was that it's barbaric and inhumane... but then i thought, hmm, the dog didn't seem to be writhing in pain that much... certainly not as much as i'd've expected. and it wasn't sedated i don't think because it made a pretty good attempt at biting the skinner half-way through.

so, yeah: how much does skinning alive actually hurt? I'd suppose that skinning severs the nerve-endings, which could make the whole process less-painful? but still...

(obviously, they could have done the dog a favour and at least killed it afterwards...)

[edit]actually, i'd like to clarify that i'm not saying this is ok. i'm just wondering wether it's not quite as bad as it seems?[/quote]
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#2 YT2095

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 04:34 PM

if you see at the beginning, they have their heads bashed off the ground 1`st, it`s not exactly sedation though.
although I would have thought/expected the pain to rendered then unconscious (passed out) during it, it seems Not?
although at the end, it doesn`t seem Too far off death.
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#3 Shadow

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 04:46 PM

I don't know, although I would give anything for the chance to skin them alive and then ask the mother&!#*%^@...
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#4 Phi for All

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 04:59 PM

apparently, in china animals are skinned alive because it's easyer to remove the fur whilst they're alive.

I'd have to know the biological reason behind this statement before I could even attempt an answer. Sorry if they mention it in the link but I'm still having my morning coffee with my Corgi at my feet and didn't need the visual.
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#5 Mokele

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 08:57 PM

It'd be excruciatingly painful, as the severing of nerves is invariably interpreted as pain by the nervous system.

What they're doing is *definitely* unethical, but only because of the half-assed euthanasia. The animal that's moving as it's skinned, is probably mostly dead, and just reflexively convulsing (spinal reflexes can persist after brain-death). If they could just spend a bit more effort on the initial kill to ensure it's final, it'd all be fine.

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#6 Phi for All

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 10:32 PM

If they could just spend a bit more effort on the initial kill to ensure it's final, it'd all be fine.

But Dak said they do it this way because it's easier "to remove the fur whilst they're alive". Is this true and if so, why?
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#7 YT2095

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 11:17 PM

it`s easier to pluck a chicken when it`s still warm (directly after killing it) than it is later when it`s cold, surely the same would be true for a dog?
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#8 Mokele

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 01:22 AM

But Dak said they do it this way because it's easier "to remove the fur whilst they're alive". Is this true and if so, why?


No, definitely not true, and I strongly suspect that's not even an accurate quote. These animal rights groups cannot be trusted to provide accurate information, and frequently flat-out lie to serve their agenda.

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#9 Dak

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 05:51 AM

the only elaboration i could find on the site is:

A bullet or lethal injection is too expensive and the skinners say it’s easier to rip an intact fur from a live warm body rather than one that is dead and inert.


no sources or anything.

tbh, as these are apparently just common-or-garden workers doing this, i'd assume that it's being done in the overall easyest way -- i.e., it's probably either easyer to skin alive, or it's easyer to skin alive than to kill humanely then skin a corpse
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#10 iNow

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 06:04 AM

A single bullet costs roughly a nickel, or you can get several hundred for ten bucks. This is sick. You kill the animal humanely, you slit it's artery to drain the blood, and you skin/clean it (you dress it). To do so while it's alive is IMO no different than sticking a cat in a microwave. It's needless, and I'd like to skin them alive so they can learn the lesson of what it feels like.

"A bullet is too expensive..." Give me fuggin break, bunch of ignorant twits if you ask me.


On the other side, Mokele is quite right about not trusting the extremist animal rights groups. I'd like to validate the video's source and truth before frying any one.

Also, to YTs point, if you stick the duck or bird into warm water, it helps facilitate the plucking of feathers, even if the animal has been dead for several hours. The warmth part is true, but the heat doesn't need to be internally generated to have that same effect (making the removal of feathers easier).
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#11 Sin

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 06:07 AM

I would have to agree with Mokele on this issue, i can't see how any project such as this could be easier when alive or dead?

And animal rights radicals..err 'acitivists' usually lie about everything possible without backing it up, much like PETA, with a lot of issues. Although their original agenda is very pure and humane, their way of achieving it is usually corrupt.

As the "Does it hurt as much as it seems" question was proposed, I would say yes.
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#12 Dak

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 07:33 AM

hmm... I wonder if PETA see the irony that they've 'cried wolf' and lied so much that now we're reluctant, even with video proof, to accept that animal cruelty is happening? (not saying you're wrong -- totally agree that animal welfare groups are unreliable sources)

oh, just noticed: "Both Videos and Animal Cruelty Photos by Courtesy of PETA"

hmm...

iNow: guns represent an initial outlay, plus they're banned in china; anyway, we don't know how much profit these people are making per hide -- maybe a nickel per hide is a lot.

----------

"Because", say the chinese, "it's easyer to skin a live warm animal that's convulsing in agony than a dead body"


I doubt they were their exact words, but maybe struggling means that the animal helps pull itself out of it's own hide? (one of the more disturbing things i've ever had to think :-/ )
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#13 npts2020

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 03:25 PM

Seeing as skinning alive has been used at different times in human history, and AFAIK is considered to be a particularly torturous death, I can't imagine it not being one of the most painful things you could do
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#14 Mokele

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 04:39 PM

Guns aren't even the issue - I can teach them how to euthanize the animals at a rate of about 40 per hour for only two workers using nothing but a table and a broom handle. It's called cervical dislocation - put the animal on the table, broom handle at the back of the skull pinning it down, then grab the body and yank backwards. Instant broken neck, quickly fatal, almost zero chance for errors. It's used on lab mice and rats, but can be used on just about any mammal up to the size of a medium sized dog.

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#15 jimmydasaint

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Posted 1 January 2009 - 03:02 AM

Guns aren't even the issue - I can teach them how to euthanize the animals at a rate of about 40 per hour for only two workers using nothing but a table and a broom handle. It's called cervical dislocation - put the animal on the table, broom handle at the back of the skull pinning it down, then grab the body and yank backwards. Instant broken neck, quickly fatal, almost zero chance for errors. It's used on lab mice and rats, but can be used on just about any mammal up to the size of a medium sized dog.

Mokele


And the animal would be still warm enough to be skinned easily.

Sorry guys but how can you NOT believe the video evidence? It did not look faked and it is probably some of the most horrific and inhumane footage that I have ever seen. We have a responsibility to the planet - to humans and all other living things herein. We also have a responsibility to allow humans, these cats and dogs a right to live a life without torture imposed upon them.

The question from the OP is invalid because of the inadequacy of techniques to measure the perception of pain in animals. However, the intention is absolutely clear. Profit is made from the suffering of others and no-one has a right to gain from these horrific practices. As Mokele has mentioned, there are easier ways to skin these animals.

I feel like signing the online petition.
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