[Phi for All]

blike said:

I will poop blood.

Is that the new biofuel for doctors? :D Sounds expensive....

[Skye]

On supply and demand, one of the reasons that fuel is often taxed heavily is because demand is fairly insensitive to changes in price.

[Reaper]

Klaynos said:

In the UK it's not uncommon currently to pay $9/US Gallon

...................................................................


True, but it gives you a nice idea that compared to other places you've got it good still... or at least better...

I understood that, but I'm also sure that in the UK you don't have big cars, large pickup trucks, or SUV's. And I'm also sure that your cars have more miles to the U.S. gallon. That's why I have a reason to complain about it.

I would like to buy the very small "smart cars", as they are called in the U.S., that are common in Europe, but over here they don't even sell them. And there isn't any effort to improve the mileage here. I've heard of people over here having to pay over $100 at the pump to fill those gas guzzlers of theirs.

[swansont]

Reaper said:

I understood that, but I'm also sure that in the UK you don't have big cars, large pickup trucks, or SUV's. And I'm also sure that your cars have more miles to the U.S. gallon. That's why I have a reason to complain about it.

I would like to buy the very small "smart cars", as they are called in the U.S., that are common in Europe, but over here they don't even sell them. And there isn't any effort to improve the mileage here. I've heard of people over here having to pay over $100 at the pump to fill those gas guzzlers of theirs.

And yet they never complained about the bastard who held a gun to their head, forcing them to buy the gas-guzzler in the first place. I think they need a little tough love.

I did see a "smart car" the other day. I had a flash of inspiration for an Ashton Kutcher sequel, "Dude, where's the rest of my car?"

[Rev Blair]

Quote

Wait, whose bucks would those be? The greenback or the loonie?

It doesn't really matter...our money is pretty much at par now, which has cut into my income because I get paid in US funds a lot.

[John Cuthber]

Did nobody warn our American cousins that the price of gasoline was going to rise as it becomes rare (or at least the easy stuff to get at becomes rare?).
If they had received such a warning I'm sure they would have invested in smaller cars etc.

[Reaper]

John Cuthber said:

Did nobody warn our American cousins that the price of gasoline was going to rise as it becomes rare (or at least the easy stuff to get at becomes rare?).
If they had received such a warning I'm sure they would have invested in smaller cars etc.

I'm having a hell of a time trying to convince and warn everyone over here right now, including the rest of my family (e.g. get rid of that SUV NOW!). Unfortunately, they have mastered their ability to deny reality over the years....

And its not like they can't do it either. I don't know what it is, but it seems to me that folks here in America would rather pay more to hold on to their habits then to actually take real steps to fix all of our problems. Most Americans here truly don't understand the enormity of the problem that we will be facing here, and I have a feeling that by the time they do, it will be too late...

This post has been edited by Reaper: 1 June 2008 - 09:17 PM
Reason for edit: multiple post merged

[Rev Blair]

It's not just the size of the cars, it's the entire design of North American society. We live a long way from where we work and, in a lot of cases spouses work in different areas from each other.

We have a lot of lifestyle choices that require owning a truck or SUV...everything from gardening to "camping" to not looking after our roads properly.

I can't imagine trying to live where I do without a truck. I haul stuff most weekends in the summer. I've never bought into the bit about using a truck as my main method of transport, but if I had bought something new (as all the advertising tells us we should) and was making payments on it, I couldn't afford a fuel efficient car as well.

[Reaper]

I suppose I could suggest, you know, just changing your lifestyle, but I don't think you (or alot of other people) will be receptive to that idea.

Ah well, its not like it can be maintained for much longer anyways...

[Pangloss]

I know what you mean, Rev. A lot of people are in that boat, having bought trucks they needed for work and just deciding that they would drive them around for normal driving because they couldn't afford two vehicles. Gas was cheap so it made sense, but now it's becoming a problem. My brother in law is in that boat, with one of those 900-hp Dodge diesel monsters that are so great for hauling. He lives in a mountain resort area and works in construction and painting.

I do think it will work out in the long run, but it's going to be tough for a while as everyone adjusts to the new reality. It's interesting that this didn't really happen at the 2 or 3 dollar mark, but now suddenly it's really starting to kick in. We crossed a threshold somewhere around the 3.50 mark, it seems to me.

[Rev Blair]

Quote

I suppose I could suggest, you know, just changing your lifestyle, but I don't think you (or alot of other people) will be receptive to that idea.

Actually, I've already made a lot of the lifestyle changes. I work out of my house, my trucks are left-overs from another era that I owe nothing on, and Mrs. Rev works close to here...close enough to bicycle.

Some of my writing is technical/carpentry stuff though, so I need materials to build the projects as I write about them, and, because I live in an old house, there are always repairs, upgrades, and maintenance to do. Then there's the landscaping...it's hard to carry a yard of 3/4 down lime in a smart car.

I worry more about people I know in small towns and on farms. They have little choice but to commute to larger centres for work, and they have to buy fuel for their farm equipment. Many of them are farmers who work off the farm to make ends meet, so moving isn't an option for them. Others moved to small towns because housing prices are low in small towns and they could afford to live there.

I'm not talking about people who wanted a monster house on a five acre lot here, or people who over-extended themselves because they wanted all the toys, I'm talking about people who were struggling before and are being hit hard by gas prices now.

Finally, there's another reality that nobody talks about much, likely because it's considered rude. Some of us don't fit into the urban lifestyle very well. You can't just dump us into the middle of a city without making the neighbours uncomfortable.

[Phi for All]

We have alternative fuel sources and lubricants, and I know we can make plastics from vegetable oil. Is there anything we *have* to use oil for that has no viable substitute?

[Rev Blair]

That depends how you define "viable", Phi. Talk to ten different people, you'll get twelve different opinions.

[imp]

For me, the frightening part of the super-high gasoline and diesel prices is the fact that ever-more purchasers are using credit cards to buy fuel, thus deepening their debt, since it is very unlikely that any reasonable percentage of them pay the card billing in full each month.

The credit card debt is already totally out of control, with the fuel prices pushing it still higher. This situation will only resolve itself in the form of sudden drastic price decreases (unlikely), or an accelerated rate of personal bankruptcies occurring. imp

[Reaper]

Well, the high gas prices are at least beginning to cause most Americans to start conserving their resources and actually start chucking away those gas guzzlers: http://money.cnn.com...=rss_topstories


Not sure how long this will last though...

[ecoli]

Reaper said:

Well, the high gas prices are at least beginning to cause most Americans to start conserving their resources and actually start chucking away those gas guzzlers: http://money.cnn.com...=rss_topstories


Not sure how long this will last though...

It has to last... gas isn't going to get cheaper.

[Sisyphus]

Well, my "car" - that is, a loaded electric subway car - gets about 5000mpg. And my work and everything I could possibly need is within a couple miles of where I'm sitting - most of it within easy walking distance. So I just sit back and chuckle condescendingly, like any good New Yorker.

[Phi for All]

Rev Blair said:

That depends how you define "viable", Phi. Talk to ten different people, you'll get twelve different opinions.

Viable for me would be cost-effective and sustainable. It would make no sense to replace oil for any application with something that is either a LOT more expensive or will be depleted just as quickly.

Is there anything that we MUST use oil for that has no cost-effective, sustainable alternative? If there is we should be saving oil for that. I just couldn't think of an application that didn't have several other solutions.

[LawLord]

I haven't had time to read all the post (in a rush, about to go out).

But has anyone heard of peak oil?

I will explain it later if you haven't.

The petrol/gas prices are causes much bigger problems than what many people believe.

Many airlines are now struggling to make profit because of high oil prices. If they raise their ticket prices further, less people can afford to travel on them.

Farmers use patrolium based fertilisers to grow food.

Actually, oil pretty much plays a role in everything in a modern day society.

If the price of oil doesn't stop going up (it is expected to continue going up worldwide) then:

Airlines go into Liquidation (they already are around the world)
Taxis buisnesses go into liquidation
Shipping cost increase
fertilizer price goes up = food goes up
Travel Agents go out of buisness (no one traveling, to expensive)
Car manufacturors go under (as well as those who sell cars for a living) as no-one wants cars anymore due to high cost of running.

Trust me, you have ALOT more problems to worry about than running ya car.

We should have Geology forum here... they'd know quite abit about peak oil (and its a science... makes sense).

Most alternatives of oil use incredible amounts of energy to make. Biofuels? They use fertilizers. Wind farms? Lots of oil is used to create them and get them on location (perhaps more energy than they will produce in their lifetime(.

Strongly advise you to read some geology textbooks.

Shell oil was recently caught lying about its reserves... it has a lot less.

I would encourage people to read their Reserve/Central banks monetary policu as well as other nations as well.

Read Chinas (yes, it does make it public), USA, Britian, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, French, Sweden (don't know if they release it).

Remeber also, monetary policy is usually based in things that are currently happening rather than why it is happening (non of them mention peak oil, even though many politicians and alot of geologists are now admitting were there...)

I STRONGLY encourage all people to start growing their own fruit and vegetables right now. Get all variaties. Ones that grow in different seasons... Your gonna need the money that you'd normally use for food on other things (if it still has value). Gold may be a viable option also (notice it has doubled? (in America). People are abandoning debt based currency rapidly. Basically, people are losing confidence in the money supply.

Where I live, alot of my fellow students are watching the US currency drop. We keep pretty up to date with this stuff. The world has alot of its wealth invested in US currency so with a faultering US Economy it is making everyone nervous. Countries around the world are starting to get rid of their US dollars... slowly though. If they did it all at once it would cause panic and everyone would try and get rid of all their US dollars... this would cause chaos. Make no mistake though, the US dollar is being given up slowly but surely.

I Wish everyone the best of luck in the coming years.

This post has been edited by LawLord: 10 June 2008 - 04:45 AM

[Reaper]

LawLord

Most of us do understand what peak oil is and what it's potential consequences are. Most of the discussion takes place in either the environmental forums or in general discussion. Such as this one over here: http://www.sciencefo...ead.php?t=29456