Well, I think it is now clear that gas prices in the United States will only be going up from now on, not down. Up here in my native state of NH it is $3.90 at the pump currently, and $4 per gallon is not that far off. I've been reading reports that gas prices in California are beginning to reach $5 per gallon, and I'm sure that soon that will be the case here in the Northeast.
Though it is not yet that high, these prices are already starting to really become quite painful for many people with our big fat gas guzzling cars. In my area, there is no light rail, no bus, etc. Gas prices are already high enough to make my father start taking his bike to work rather then his car for example (a rather good choice I say, because his work is only about 3-4 miles out of the way).
My own car has about 30 mpg, but at $5 per gallon, I'm not sure just how much that is going to matter, and I am going to be needing it in the foreseeable future (which means that I'll have to pay for gas). It is however small, so maybe it will make a difference. But most of us around here aren't that fortunate.
I'm beginning to start about thinking about buying one of those really small, "smart" cars that are scarce in the market here in the U.S. right now, that or an electric car and do away with petro all together (if not that, then a hybrid). Additionally, I'm starting to use less hot water and trying to redesign the house so that it will rely much less on that gas heater of mine.
Unfortunately here in the States our options are so few, and there is not enough subsidies for renewable resources. The American auto companies aren't doing shit to solve any of the problems, the oil companies have the consumers by the throat, and we are being a bit slow to develop mass transit :doh:. What the hell are we to do about this :-(?
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What will you do when gas reaches $5 dollars a gallon?
#2 23 May 2008 - 10:14 AM
I would celebrate that the price has dropped to about half price...
In the UK it's not uncommon currently to pay $9/US Gallon
Sympathy here you will not find.
In the UK it's not uncommon currently to pay $9/US Gallon
Sympathy here you will not find.
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#3 23 May 2008 - 02:19 PM
I had a feeling a post like that was coming. Thank you, Klaynos, for giving some context on this. :-)
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#4 23 May 2008 - 04:12 PM
Klaynos said:
I would celebrate that the price has dropped to about half price...
In the UK it's not uncommon currently to pay $9/US Gallon
Sympathy here you will not find.
In the UK it's not uncommon currently to pay $9/US Gallon
Sympathy here you will not find.
Pointing out that gas is expensive in europe doesn't make our gas cheaper than it is.
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AIM sn - ETecoli
The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised.
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#5 23 May 2008 - 04:27 PM
ecoli said:
Pointing out that gas is expensive in europe doesn't make our gas cheaper than it is.
True, but it gives you a nice idea that compared to other places you've got it good still... or at least better...
Klaynos - Use chat... (talk to us!) - <drochaid> Klaynos, lies, I drink urine and call it beer
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#6 23 May 2008 - 05:04 PM
Sounds good to me. Let's throw 3 or 4 bucks a gallon of taxation in there instead of the 18 cents we're paying for federal taxes now. Solves the deficit and the energy crisis in one fell swoop. Of course that'll put us in recession for the next presidency, but Obama is all about change, right?
According to the US Census Bureau almost 75% of those who live below the "poverty line" own a car (31% own 2+), 43% have a 3-bedroom house, 97% own a color TV, 78% have VCR or DVD, 62% have cable or sat TV, 89% have microwave, and over half have a stereo. 89% have "enough to eat", 80% have A/C, only 6% are overcrowded, and avg child dietary consumption is on par with children of middle an upper income parents. Wouldn't it be nice to know if we have any POOR people in this country?
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#7 25 May 2008 - 12:21 PM
It's a failure of several administrations to have avoided ramping up the tax slowly, IMO. It wouldn't have been popular, and the oil and auto companies wouldn't have liked it, so it didn't happen. But it'd have been one way to actually reduce our oil imports, rather than just talk about it.
No, but it gives some perspective to the notion that we somehow have a right to cheap gas, which is a notion shared by a fair number of Americans.
ecoli said:
Pointing out that gas is expensive in europe doesn't make our gas cheaper than it is.
No, but it gives some perspective to the notion that we somehow have a right to cheap gas, which is a notion shared by a fair number of Americans.
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#8 25 May 2008 - 01:17 PM
We're right around five bucks a gallon right now, and Canada is more similar to the US, both culturally and taxation-perception wise, than Europe is.
Five bucks a gallon hasn't made much difference here. There's been some shift away from gas guzzlers and into smaller cars, but not even as much as we saw in the 1970s...at least so far. Mostly we just complain, then dig out our wallets.
Five bucks a gallon hasn't made much difference here. There's been some shift away from gas guzzlers and into smaller cars, but not even as much as we saw in the 1970s...at least so far. Mostly we just complain, then dig out our wallets.
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#9 25 May 2008 - 01:28 PM
In the short term, i.e, less than five years, there are no solutions other than incremental improvements in conservation and efficiency. The US Department of Energy has a pretty decent information service at
www.eia.doe.gov
which provides forecasts, white papers on options etc. It appears to be slightly industry oriented and, thus, optimistic; nonetheless the picture is gloomy. Additional drilling, refinery expansions, alternative fuels, etc. are all perhaps decades away and may have hidden problems (such as the recently noted cost increase in nuclear power plants due to cement cost increases and the lack of skilled labor). Europe uses about half the per capita energy as the US and enjoys a comparable standard of living. We Americans will do well to emulate some of the European practices and that may, indeed, be our only choice that has any prospect for success.
www.eia.doe.gov
which provides forecasts, white papers on options etc. It appears to be slightly industry oriented and, thus, optimistic; nonetheless the picture is gloomy. Additional drilling, refinery expansions, alternative fuels, etc. are all perhaps decades away and may have hidden problems (such as the recently noted cost increase in nuclear power plants due to cement cost increases and the lack of skilled labor). Europe uses about half the per capita energy as the US and enjoys a comparable standard of living. We Americans will do well to emulate some of the European practices and that may, indeed, be our only choice that has any prospect for success.
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#10 29 May 2008 - 12:03 AM
The same thing I do already: don't drive my car.
My car has been broken for almost 3 weeks now, and so far I feel no incentive to try fixing it.
My car has been broken for almost 3 weeks now, and so far I feel no incentive to try fixing it.
Radicalism: The conservatism of tomorrow injected into the affairs of today.
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-- Ambrose Bierce
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#11 29 May 2008 - 12:07 AM
thoughts from gut bacteria
AIM sn - ETecoli
The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised.
AIM sn - ETecoli
The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised.
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#12 29 May 2008 - 02:44 AM
Rev Blair said:
We're right around five bucks a gallon right now, and Canada is more similar to the US, both culturally and taxation-perception wise, than Europe is.
Five bucks a gallon hasn't made much difference here. There's been some shift away from gas guzzlers and into smaller cars, but not even as much as we saw in the 1970s...at least so far. Mostly we just complain, then dig out our wallets.
Five bucks a gallon hasn't made much difference here. There's been some shift away from gas guzzlers and into smaller cars, but not even as much as we saw in the 1970s...at least so far. Mostly we just complain, then dig out our wallets.
Wait, whose bucks would those be? The greenback or the loonie?
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#13 29 May 2008 - 03:28 AM
I would...buy more gas...I have to get to work...to buy more gas, etc.
If you increase the number of automobiles that will get 100 km/g you will increase the price of gasoline...because...they will be selling less.
Supply and demand. The record profits are not the consequence of malfeasance, but rather, people are buying more.
The bigger problem is the increase in the price of essentially everything (food, etc.). This is a consequence not of the price of gasoline, but of the price of the fuel of commerce, diesel (and to some extent, the diversion of our food into fuel). If you wish to fix this, a reasonable approach might be to increase the sulfur limit in diesel from 15 to 25 (or so) ppm.
unpopular,
O3
If you increase the number of automobiles that will get 100 km/g you will increase the price of gasoline...because...they will be selling less.
Supply and demand. The record profits are not the consequence of malfeasance, but rather, people are buying more.
The bigger problem is the increase in the price of essentially everything (food, etc.). This is a consequence not of the price of gasoline, but of the price of the fuel of commerce, diesel (and to some extent, the diversion of our food into fuel). If you wish to fix this, a reasonable approach might be to increase the sulfur limit in diesel from 15 to 25 (or so) ppm.
unpopular,
O3
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#14 29 May 2008 - 03:43 AM
Ozone said:
I would...buy more gas...I have to get to work...to buy more gas, etc.
If you increase the number of automobiles that will get 100 km/g you will increase the price of gasoline...because...they will be selling less.
Supply and demand. The record profits are not the consequence of malfeasance, but rather, people are buying more.
The bigger problem is the increase in the price of essentially everything (food, etc.). This is a consequence not of the price of gasoline, but of the price of the fuel of commerce, diesel (and to some extent, the diversion of our food into fuel). If you wish to fix this, a reasonable approach might be to increase the sulfur limit in diesel from 15 to 25 (or so) ppm.
unpopular,
O3
If you increase the number of automobiles that will get 100 km/g you will increase the price of gasoline...because...they will be selling less.
Supply and demand. The record profits are not the consequence of malfeasance, but rather, people are buying more.
The bigger problem is the increase in the price of essentially everything (food, etc.). This is a consequence not of the price of gasoline, but of the price of the fuel of commerce, diesel (and to some extent, the diversion of our food into fuel). If you wish to fix this, a reasonable approach might be to increase the sulfur limit in diesel from 15 to 25 (or so) ppm.
unpopular,
O3
but, if the increased prices get people driving less, demand goes down, and so does price. I'd rather save the gas for truckers delivering my food, medical supplies and amazon.com purchases than for getting to work.
thoughts from gut bacteria
AIM sn - ETecoli
The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised.
AIM sn - ETecoli
The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised.
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#15 29 May 2008 - 04:10 AM
Ozone said:
If you increase the number of automobiles that will get 100 km/g you will increase the price of gasoline...because...they will be selling less.
That's not how supply and demand works. You've got it backwards.
Quote
Supply and demand. The record profits are not the consequence of malfeasance, but rather, people are buying more.
That's how it works. And it isn't just American buying more. It's increased consumption from the BRIC countries that isn't going away any time soon.
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#16 29 May 2008 - 04:13 AM
CDarwin said:
That's not how supply and demand works. You've got it backwards.
It depends, I think. People will be buying less gas, so I think initially prices would skyrocket, to make up for the drastic reduction in revenue. But, competition would force prices down again.
thoughts from gut bacteria
AIM sn - ETecoli
The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised.
AIM sn - ETecoli
The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised.
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#17 29 May 2008 - 11:40 AM
Demand will go down, yes, but since it's a regulated market the more simplistic ideas of free market supply & demand don't really apply in the same way.
iNow
~~~ Pale Blue Dot ~~~
"[Time] is one of those concepts that is profoundly resistant to a simple definition."
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http://thescienceforum.orgDid you like this post? Let me know about it by clicking the (+) sign here -->
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#18 29 May 2008 - 12:37 PM
CDarwin said:
That's not how supply and demand works. You've got it backwards.
Normal supply and demand dynamics assumes a free market. Having a cartel as a major player kinda ruins that.
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