[woelen]

For rocket fuel I would suggest you to stay to KNO3. A lot more stable and well burning at an acceptable rate. For rocketry you don't want too high burning rates. Of course, you could add a payload with some nice effect, where you could use some of your home-made KClO3, but as YT and I warned before, keep in mind that KClO3 is a notoriously sensitive and unstable chemical, which already has cost many persons limbs or more. So, feel free to experiment, but always be prepared that something can go wrong with KClO3.
I myself use the KClO3 I have only for fun experiments, with some flashing, high-speed buring powders and so on, but to my opinion it is not suitable for real pyrotechnics, unless you have a lot of experience of knowledge.

If you really want more about this subject, then I suggest you to read the following very interesting forums, devoted to pyro and rocketry. I did not register in them, but I regularly read them with pleasure.

General pyrotechnics: http://groups.google...ec.pyrotechnics
Rocketry: http://www.ukrocketr...dex.php?act=idx

Interesting reads....

[[w00t]]

Is it normal for the electrolysis cell to soap/foam up, like a lot of bubbles everywhere in the mix

[woelen]

Are your graphite electrodes treated with some linseed oil? This is a good thing, because it makes them less vulnerable to corrosion, but it also adds more crap into the solution, most notably, forming kind of foam on the surface of the solution. This behavior can be reduced somewhat by diluting the solution a litte. E.g. add 1 part of water to 4 parts of the solution. I also read about adding a drop of a detergent to the solution. This reduces surface tension and may reduce foaming. Your mileage may vary though.

[YT2095]

"Bubble rafts" are common in such cells, but Foam?

as for the detergent idea, I`m not 100% sure of that either, I think a few drops of Alcohol may serve you just as well for surface tension.
the reasoning behind this is that the free OH part should saponify any oils (linseed) to form a Soap (detergent) anyway, and so I can`t see how adding More would assist in anyway.

IMO, adding a detergent could only serve to Amplify this problem.

[woelen]

YT, that is why I wrote that your mileage may vary. But, it is sometimes true that adding a detergent may reduce foaming, due to interaction with other foaming agents.

I would not add alcohol. That reacts with hypochlorite and chlorine and reduces the cell efficiency to 0. As long as alcohol is present, no chlorate is formed at all! Before the hypochlorite can disproportionate to chorate and chloride, the alcohol has reacted with it already.
The reaction, which occurs is the so-called haloform reaction.

[YT2095]

I did once (whilst drunk and a little younger), give my chlorate cell a "drink" also (for being so good to me (don`t ask)).
it had no deletarious effect upon it, certainly in anyway that was Noticable in yeild, and no odd halokane smells after either (it was only Vodka though).

I`m still quite certain that any Linseed in the graphite would saponify and become its Own detergent anyway, and more stearate molecules could onlyadd to this.
Maybe that`s the actual Cause of the "Foam"?

[[w00t]]

I think it had something to do with it being warm, cuz after a while it went back normal (i dont treat my crap with oil )

when i attached the second set of resistors. it went much hotter then just using one set, by hot i mean more then just hand burning hot. i reckon a minute on a paper will light it on fire. (also i could see a line of gas going up a metre above the beaker)

so i put another heatsink and stuck a fan over it :)

edit- if i stuck 10 in parallel, thats like 2.2ohms of resistance, so that would be ~5.45a if what i learnt in physics is correct... would that setup work? wouldnt 5a take like 2-3x quicker to complete its job?

[woelen]

No, the physics and chemistry both are not correct. With 10 resistors indeed you get appr. 2.2 Ohm effective resistance, but your current will be at mose somewhere between 3 and 4 A. This is due to the voltage drop across the cell. The cell also takes 4 to 5 volts, and the remaining voltage will be across the resistors. Look at the page, which I wrote some time ago, this explains why the cell voltage is not 0.

Increasing the current by a certain factor does not increase the speed at which chlorate is formed by the same factor. You even can make the cell, such that its efficiency goes down a lot, while more currrent is sent through it. It all has to do with current density on the electrodes. As I wrote before, keep the current density below 100 mA per cm². If you really want to draw more current with your second set of resistors, then make up for a second cell, and connect that to the second set of resistors, and connect both cells to the same PSU (that certainly will power both cells without problems).

What you now are doing is producing lots of hydrogen and oxygen, producing lots of heat and only making relatively low amounts of chlorate. So, make another cell and do not rise the current too much though a single cell.

[[w00t]]

i found some nichrome wires lying around, would it work as a cathode material? and circle it around the carbon anode electrode? or would it heat up to much causing to much evaporation?

i know nichrome is expensive and it can be used for better things...

[DougBrummell]

tell me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that pH wasn't actually pH, but rather ro (greek symbol) H, and it is the negative log of the H+ concentration, oppositely there is pOH. . . it just seems as though the ro evolved into a p to most people/institutions.

[jdurg]

DougBrummell said:

tell me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that pH wasn't actually pH, but rather ro (greek symbol) H, and it is the negative log of the H+ concentration, oppositely there is pOH. . . it just seems as though the ro evolved into a p to most people/institutions.

You're wrong. :-p :D the pH is actually a french term "poweur Hydronium"(sic?) which pretty much describes that it is a logarithimic measurement of the hydronium concentration. It is not greek at all.

[DougBrummell]

"The concept was introduced by S.P.L. Sørensen in 1909, and is purported to mean "pondus hydrogenii" in Dutch."

Then it goes on to say most people now associate it with yours.

Thanks for the catch on the ro, lying ass chemisty teacher.

[woelen]

Well, I'm Dutch, but the words "pondus hydrogenii" definitely are no Dutch words :-p . It seems like Latin to me. The word "pondus" does not mean anything to me, the word "hydrogenii" means something like "of hydrogen".

EDIT: I have done a lookup and the word "pondus" means "pressure".

[DougBrummell]

ok well now YT, Wikipedia (from which my Dutch comment was drawn), my teacher, and yourself have all told me different things. . . so here is my conclusion. . . pH means what level of ouch an acid or a base is.

[bob000555]

If you try electrolysis of NaCl in the reguler electrolysis setup the HCl and NaOh will react before you can seperate them.

[YT2095]

actualy it was a Danish guy that worked for a Beer Brewery called Carlsberg in 1909, his name was Soren Sorensen.
there`s no mention of what the exact words were for PH though in his language, I`ve always taken it to be "Potential Hydrogen".
we need another Danish Chemist now to find out for sure (idealy a Beer drinker) :)

[[w00t]]

Whats the best way to produce Barium Chlorate instead? i know i can be done by a double decomp with sodium chlorate but then its basiclly impossible to seperate the 2

[YT2095]

electrolysis of Barium Chloride is how I made mine.

actualy this thread has gone through SO MANY changes, I`ll have to rename it now, it popular and it does more or less Flow as well as being pretty good in the main :)

[woelen]

Making barium chloride is easy. Dissolve excess barium carbonate in dilute hydrochloric acid, let the insoluble matter settle at the bottom and the clear liquid is the almost pure solution of barium chloride, ready for electrolysis. Barium carbonate is an OTC product, which can be purchased from ceramics suppliers.
Keep in mind that the barium carbonate usually contains a few percent of BaS and hence you also get the stink of H2S. Dissolve the solid outside and when all is dissolved, adding a few drops of 3% H2O2 before letting settle the solid destroys the remaining H2S.

[jdurg]

Elemental Barium is actually some pretty neat stuff too. I've spent the past few days moving some of my more air sensitive metals to some new jars I picked up which are smaller in size and have tighter fitting tops. (The smaller size allows less gas to dissolve in the mineral oil. The tight fitting tops, in conjunction with Teflon Tape and an electrical tape seal on the outside does a great job of keeping air out. The sodium I put into one a few months ago looks as fresh as when I cut it). Anyway, I expected barium to be fairly soft and somewhat dense, but it's neither! It's actually a pretty hard metal and felt kind of like aluminum. The oxide coating on the outside adheres very strongly to the metal so I wasn't able to remove it and see what pure barium looks like. I did try and scrape off some of the heavily oxidized sections and now have it sealed away in a much better jar. I need to go and pick up more of these jars, however.