Randolpin Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 We can think that there is a purpose for why we are here also somebody could also think there is no purpose at all. For you, I just want to ask, which is more valid base on evidences, purpose or no purpose?(For me purpose-I will provide the justification of it but let me know your part first if it is ok) Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I am not aware of any evidence for a purpose. But feel free to present some. NOTE: your personal beliefs do not count as evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvestru Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I think by purpose you mean you were created by an entity with your life designed for a particular goal right? Soooo... No I do not believe in purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 To give a different religious view before this thread is inevitably dragged down the theistic route: Purpose and no purpose are two sides of the same coin constructed by man. There isn't purpose, and there isn't meaninglessness either - both of these are things humans impose upon existence. Purpose or meaningless isn't a category will can apply to existence in general, but of course every one is free to impose any meaning, or meaninglessness, onto their existence they see fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, Prometheus said: Purpose and no purpose are two sides of the same coin constructed by man. There isn't purpose, and there isn't meaninglessness either Indeed, the real purpose of life is to enjoy what you can and endure what you can't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randolpin Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 21 hours ago, Prometheus said: To give a different religious view before this thread is inevitably dragged down the theistic route: Purpose and no purpose are two sides of the same coin constructed by man. There isn't purpose, and there isn't meaninglessness either - both of these are things humans impose upon existence. Purpose or meaningless isn't a category will can apply to existence in general, but of course every one is free to impose any meaning, or meaninglessness, onto their existence they see fit. And your view could also be not true. Let me put my justification or defense for my view. Imagine, example the only thing that exist is a strawberry tree. We can argue, why this type of tree exist for eternity and not a coconut tree etc. There are many possibilities but why this is the one that exist. There must be a purpose for why it exist other than those other possible trees. The strawberry tree could be liken to the universe. Why this type of universe exist and not a universe where planets are not sphere but cube shape ( just an example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 15 minutes ago, Randolpin said: There must be a purpose for why it exist other than those other possible trees. No. There doesn't need to be a purpose. It could be chance. Or the soil could be too dry for coconut. Or ... 18 minutes ago, Randolpin said: Why this type of universe exist and not a universe where planets are not sphere but cube shape ( just an example). Well, it could be that some god (yours or someone else's) created the laws of physics which make the universe like that. Or it could be that there are multiple universes and in some of those, the planets are cube shaped. Or it could be that the laws of physics can only be like that. I did tell you that your beliefs are not evidence. Apparently you didn't believe me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randolpin Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 11 minutes ago, Strange said: No. There doesn't need to be a purpose. It could be chance. Or the soil could be too dry for coconut. Or ... Ahm, may I ask, what is your bases for saying "there isn't need to be a purpose" and "it could be chance." 13 minutes ago, Strange said: Or it could be that there are multiple universes and in some of those, the planets are cube shaped. Then we can still argue, " why multiverse and not the other way around like for example, universe?" 15 minutes ago, Strange said: Or it could be that the laws of physics can only be like that. Then we can still argue, why these is the laws of physics and not the other way around? 16 minutes ago, Strange said: I did tell you that your beliefs are not evidence. Apparently you didn't believe me. I have a faith of something. It doesn't mean that it is blind faith but I have faith with reason or reasonable faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 4 minutes ago, Randolpin said: Ahm, may I ask, what is your bases for saying "there isn't need to be a purpose" and "it could be chance." Because there is no necessity for a purpose. It could be random chance that things are the way they are. 4 minutes ago, Randolpin said: Then we can still argue, why these is the laws of physics and not the other way around? What is "the other way round"? If these laws of physics are the only ones possible, then there is no purpose. It is just the only possible universe. For example, it can be shown that space-time with more than 3 space dimensions is not stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Randolpin said: Ahm, may I ask, what is your bases for saying "there isn't need to be a purpose" and "it could be chance." He means there is no universal purpose (one size fits all) IOW there is no 'a purpose'; people/animals each have their own purpose if they're lucky. Edited October 5, 2017 by dimreepr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randolpin Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 4 minutes ago, Strange said: Because there is no necessity for a purpose. It could be random chance that things are the way they are. Why there is no necessity? what is your bases for having this argument? To me it seems that there is necessity because you can ask the question" why this is the universe that exist and not the other type?" We can ask this question because of the philosophy of the possible worlds. I also argue your second sentence. We can still argue " why things in this universe is the way they are?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, Randolpin said: Why there is no necessity? what is your bases for having this argument? To me it seems that there is necessity because you can ask the question" why this is the universe that exist and not the other type?" 4 If it was the other type you couldn't ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 22 hours ago, Randolpin said: We can think that there is a purpose for why we are here also somebody could also think there is no purpose at all. For you, I just want to ask, which is more valid base on evidences, purpose or no purpose?(For me purpose-I will provide the justification of it but let me know your part first if it is ok) Thank you What's the real difference between a purpose and no purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 minute ago, Itoero said: What's the real difference between a purpose and no purpose? Contentment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, dimreepr said: Contentment... You have to explain that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, Itoero said: You have to explain that... Only humans have the ability to question its existence and it's value, so only humans need a reason to be content and that reason is usually what we call 'purpose' (reason to live). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randolpin Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 13 minutes ago, Itoero said: What's the real difference between a purpose and no purpose? We can look the purpose of something through it's existence by asking the question" Why these are the characteristics of the universe and not the other characteristics? We can argue that there is a purpose because of this. To clarify, example your friend gave you a cake. You can ask, "why my friend gave me a cake instead of a doughnut?" There must be a purpose for your friend for giving a cake rather than a doughnut for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 4 minutes ago, Randolpin said: We can look the purpose of something through it's existence by asking the question" Why these are the characteristics of the universe and not the other characteristics? We can argue that there is a purpose because of this. To clarify, example your friend gave you a cake. You can ask, "why my friend gave me a cake instead of a doughnut?" There must be a purpose for your friend for giving a cake rather than a doughnut for you. You're conflating reason with purpose and confusing yourself; the universe does have a reason but it doesn't need a purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Randolpin said: We can look the purpose of something through it's existence by asking the question" Why these are the characteristics of the universe and not the other characteristics? We can argue that there is a purpose because of this. To clarify, example your friend gave you a cake. You can ask, "why my friend gave me a cake instead of a doughnut?" There must be a purpose for your friend for giving a cake rather than a doughnut for you. I don't think 'purpose'' is the correct word. 'Purpose' is too open for interpretation. I think it's better to talk about 'reason'. There is a reason why my friend gave me a cake and for the characteristics of the universe... Edited October 5, 2017 by Itoero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Randolpin said: Why there is no necessity? what is your bases for having this argument? To me it seems that there is necessity because you can ask the question" why this is the universe that exist and not the other type?" You can ask the question but you can't assume there is a single answer. Consider an atom of uranium 235. It is notable. It could decay in the next second or the next trillion years. The time it decays is random. It is pure chance. That could be the case with the entire universe. On the other hand, if you insist there is a purpose, then I would have to insist that the purpose is that Bokonon wanted it that way. Do you agree with me? 45 minutes ago, Randolpin said: We can look the purpose of something through it's existence by asking the question" Why these are the characteristics of the universe and not the other characteristics? We can argue that there is a purpose because of this. Or we can say that there is no reason or purpose for things being the way they are. This is turning into another of your "I believe in God and therefore ..." threads, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 3 hours ago, Randolpin said: And your view could also be not true. Let me put my justification or defense for my view. Imagine, example the only thing that exist is a strawberry tree. We can argue, why this type of tree exist for eternity and not a coconut tree etc. There are many possibilities but why this is the one that exist. There must be a purpose for why it exist other than those other possible trees. The strawberry tree could be liken to the universe. Why this type of universe exist and not a universe where planets are not sphere but cube shape ( just an example). If the only thing exists is a strawberry tree then there would be no one to argue why it exists instead of a coconut tree. There would also be no air or soil so the 'tree' wouldn't last long. I'm not sure but i'd guess the minimum requirements for a strawberry tree to exist would be a solar system with a very similar configuration to our own. I even doubt a single sun could exist in isolation, but that only clusters (i.e. galaxies) of stars could come to being. The universe is everything, whereas a strawberry tree is a particular thing in the universe and that is why your analogies using particulars to explain why there must be a reason are completely missing the point. We didn't come into the universe, we grew out of it - a subtle but important distinction between the Abrahamic and the Vedic religions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gees Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Randolpin; I can not say that there is a purpose for life, but neither can I say that there is no purpose, as there is some evidence. Every life form of every specie will work to maintain it's own life and attempt to produce progeny to maintain it's specie. So the continuance of life is the only purpose that I can see that is supported by evidence. It is my personal opinion that life perpetuates itself through motion, through maintenance and the production of progeny. If Science is correct and life also evolves and becomes more complex, then that complexity could be seen as a goal, but this kind of thinking would lead to speculation, idealism, human arrogance, etc. Gee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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