curiouscat Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 I watched this really cool video on you tube about Faraday and the electromotive force, this invisible force that forms loops . I then thought the earth, in this seemingly loop around the sun,is the earth stick in an electromotive loop of the sun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 Our orbit is due to gravity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curiouscat Posted July 29, 2017 Author Share Posted July 29, 2017 23 minutes ago, swansont said: Our orbit is due to gravity. What is gravity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area54 Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 If you have read about Faraday and EMF I find it difficult to believe you have never heard of gravity, but I'll play along for the moment. Gravity is the 'force' that causes all matter to attract other matter. It's what holds you onto the ground and a thousand other things besides. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curiouscat Posted July 30, 2017 Author Share Posted July 30, 2017 6 hours ago, Area54 said: If you have read about Faraday and EMF I find it difficult to believe you have never heard of gravity, but I'll play along for the moment. Gravity is the 'force' that causes all matter to attract other matter. It's what holds you onto the ground and a thousand other things besides. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity I asked what is gravity? , not what the affects of gravity are. The moderator replied Our orbit is due to gravity. Orbits are due to the underlying force behind gravity. What is the underlying force? What is the process? I have read about atomic structure, the only force I can find is about the electron being attracted to the proton. Is that gravity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Gravity is an effect of the curvature of space and time That curvature is caused by the presence of mass or energy. It causes masses to move towards one another, which we perceive as a force (as described by Newton's law of gravity). Electrons are attracted to protons by the electromagnetic force (caused by the presence of electric charge). There is another force holding the protons together (the strong nuclear force). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curiouscat Posted July 30, 2017 Author Share Posted July 30, 2017 59 minutes ago, Strange said: Gravity is an effect of the curvature of space and time That curvature is caused by the presence of mass or energy. It causes masses to move towards one another, which we perceive as a force (as described by Newton's law of gravity). Electrons are attracted to protons by the electromagnetic force (caused by the presence of electric charge). There is another force holding the protons together (the strong nuclear force). An Electron and a proton has mass, the charge polarity of the Electron is attracted to the charge polarity of the Proton. Mass is not explained and neither is gravity mechanism. If an atom gains more of one charge polarity than the other, the bond becomes stronger, the attractive force becomes greater. The curvature of space time is imaginable shapes/patterns of velocities of bodies. The Sun contains both charge signs as does the Earth, charge and the Coulomb's law also follows the inverse square law as does gravity. Mass and charge are seemingly the same thing? In atomic structure there is only three known forces, 1. Likewise charges repulse 2. Opposite charges attract 3. The strong Nuclear force However number 3 is a product of either one of the opposite charges increase in number 2. i.e The more charge the tighter the bond. Mass does not have an explanation and orbits are rather circular like the electromotive force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordred Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) Gravity as a force is too weak to have any influence on individual particles or atoms. This does not mean gravity or spacetime curvature does not exist nor that gravity isn't present in the atom. It is present but its effects is negligible within the atom. Gravity has a fundamental difference between the electromagnetic force and itself. That being positive charge only. I seriously hope your not suggesting gravity does not exist. If you are then this thread belongs in Speculations forum and not maimstream. Orbits of stars and planets are different than orbits in an atom. The differences is numerous such as charge, In an atom the individual electrons do not attract each other, yet individual planets do. Under mass as a charge (positive) those like charges attract not repel as per the electromagnetic force. That alone tells us were dealing with a different force than the electromagnetic. (No repulsive force). Edited July 30, 2017 by Mordred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curiouscat Posted July 30, 2017 Author Share Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Mordred said: Orbits of stars and planets are different than orbits in an atom. The differences is numerous such as charge, In an atom the individual electrons do not attract each other, yet individual planets do. Under mass as a charge (positive) those like charges attract not repel as per the electromagnetic force. That alone tells us were dealing with a different force than the electromagnetic. (No repulsive force). I would not dare to say that gravity did not exist, although I would really like to know what gravity is? In an atom the individual electrons do not attract to each other because they are repulsed by each other, being likewise charges. Individual planets have both charge signs of negative and positive. One could assume that the individual electrons charge of one body are attracted to the opposite charge of another body and vice versus? The inverse square law playing a role in the magnitude of force as in Coulomb's laws on charge. One could also assume the opposite and the likewise charges of two different bodies cause there to be a radius between the two bodies, a repulsive force. I am not saying this is any sort of fact or theory , it is just really asking why is gravity mechanism not thought of as charge when the affects of charge are pretty much the same as gravity. I.e Could my electrons in my body be attracted to the protons in the floor by charge polarities? Added - It seems like my posting ability has been removed. So you're OK with charges attracting and repelling as an explanation, but mass attracting mass is somehow not an explanation? Mass is not an explanation, if we was to say that mass is the property of the object directly proportional to charge, I think we have an explanation of mass. Edited July 30, 2017 by curiouscat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 25 minutes ago, curiouscat said: t is just really asking why is gravity mechanism not thought of as charge when the affects of charge are pretty much the same as gravity They are similar but there are significant differences. Most bodies are electrically neutral so any attraction between their charged particles is cancelled out by the equal repulsive forces. Also, electromagnetic forces can be attractive and repulsive while gravity is only attractive. We can block electromagnetic force but you can't block gravity. 29 minutes ago, curiouscat said: although I would really like to know what gravity is? In Newtonian physics it is a force associated with mass in a similar way that electromagnetic force is associated with charge (and the nuclear force is associated with "color"). In Einstein's theory, gravity is the change in the geometry of space-time caused by the presence of mass or energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 20 hours ago, curiouscat said: What is gravity? That's for a metaphysics discussion. This is science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 5 hours ago, curiouscat said: An Electron and a proton has mass, the charge polarity of the Electron is attracted to the charge polarity of the Proton. Mass is not explained and neither is gravity mechanism. If an atom gains more of one charge polarity than the other, the bond becomes stronger, the attractive force becomes greater. The curvature of space time is imaginable shapes/patterns of velocities of bodies. The Sun contains both charge signs as does the Earth, charge and the Coulomb's law also follows the inverse square law as does gravity. Mass and charge are seemingly the same thing? In atomic structure there is only three known forces, 1. Likewise charges repulse 2. Opposite charges attract 3. The strong Nuclear force However number 3 is a product of either one of the opposite charges increase in number 2. i.e The more charge the tighter the bond. Mass does not have an explanation and orbits are rather circular like the electromotive force. So you're OK with charges attracting and repelling as an explanation, but mass attracting mass is somehow not an explanation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beecee Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 21 hours ago, curiouscat said: What is gravity? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO0r930Sn_8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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