dimreepr Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Well the title is certainly not relevant, guess again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 Well the title is certainly not relevant, guess again.So I look those things up and this is the only thing you manage to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 So I look those things up and this is the only thing you manage to say? I also looked them up, what would you suggest I say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Really??? surely, if even one person found their way (was taught) to contentment through religion, your entire argument is false. Wrong way round. If one person finds contentment without religion that's enough to show that you don't need religion to be content- which gainsays the original absurd claim. I haven't Did you even read the page you cited? It doesn't say contentment = wisdom. Only your weird redefinition says that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Wrong way round. If one person finds contentment without religion that's enough to show that you don't need religion to be content- which gainsays the original absurd claim. Did you even read the page you cited? It doesn't say contentment = wisdom. Only your weird redefinition says that. If you say so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipIngram Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Holy cow, I had to go back a page or two to get any clue as to what this discussion is about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) Holy cow, I had to go back a page or two to get any clue as to what this discussion is about... That's because it's not really a discussion, it's not even an argument; it's just gainsay, at best. Edited June 17, 2017 by dimreepr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 If you say so... No. The page you cited said so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Did it, please explain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) It's like swimming in treacle, but here goes. That page defines "wisdom".There are several definitions.None of them is anything close to the same meaning as "contentment"So, it's clear that, for you to say Since my hypothesis is "The bibles are trying to teach contentment", Which I define as wisdom, ... is nonsense- you are just redefining words to try to defend your bizarre point of view. However, even if you do conflate wisdom and contentment, you are still barking up the wrong tree. Because your original claim was " I DO believe the bible to contains wisdom that seems to elude secularism. ... bible, was never intended to be taken literally, it's a collection of stories and parables designed to teach other people how to be content; " and that makes no sense because people don't need to be taught to be content and you have yet to get anywhere close to showing what this " wisdom that seems to elude secularism." might be. (Not to mention the absurdity of teaching people to be content by hating each other and, in some cases, themselves because, for example of their sexuality.) So, once again What's the wisdom (or even contentment) that eludes secular people? Edited June 17, 2017 by John Cuthber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 ...please point to the curriculum of any secular society that teaches contentment... I already did. Our non-religious schools have a morality/life lessons subject, which teaches contentment just as much as the religion subjects in religious schools. Apart from that, nearly every parent I know tries to teach their children contentment, and I hardly know any religious people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted June 18, 2017 Author Share Posted June 18, 2017 In many weekly or monthly magazines you very often find stories and advice concerning 'getting back on track' or how to deal with relationships and friends... The path towards contentment is a pretty popular subject in those magazines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) I already did. Our non-religious schools have a morality/life lessons subject, which teaches contentment just as much as the religion subjects in religious schools. Apart from that, nearly every parent I know tries to teach their children contentment, and I hardly know any religious people. In many weekly or monthly magazines you very often find stories and advice concerning 'getting back on track' or how to deal with relationships and friends... The path towards contentment is a pretty popular subject in those magazines. I'm genuinely pleased to hear it, my only caveat (especially the magazines) is how it's taught and whether it's being conflated with happiness. I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but I'm an atheist ; so despite JC's continued protestations, that automatically means I don't think contentment/wisdom is the exclusive domain of religion, hence my use of the word "seems" in John's insistence of my intended hypothesis. The last speaker, around 1:21ish, sums up my position on this far more eloquently than I could ever hope to. Edited June 18, 2017 by dimreepr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted June 18, 2017 Author Share Posted June 18, 2017 I'm genuinely pleased to hear it, my only caveat (especially the magazines) is how it's taught and whether it's being conflated with happiness. I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but I'm an atheist ; so despite JC's continued protestations, that automatically means I don't think contentment/wisdom is the exclusive domain of religion, hence my use of the word "seems" in John's insistence of my intended hypothesis. Your education, by parents and school, is what (there are many exceptions of course) turns you into a decernt content person. Books and magazines (or able people) can help to keep you on track or bring you back on trck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Your education, by parents and school, is what (there are many exceptions of course) turns you into a decernt content person. Books and magazines (or able people) can help to keep you on track or bring you back on trck. What about the millions of people who don't receive a well balanced education, from either the state or parents? If they were never on track, what are they getting back to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tar Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 and interestingly there were good people before the morality/life lessons courses, when the morality/life lessons courses were taught in Sunday School I also am an atheist. My wife is religious, but not fanatical. We sent two on the bottom right to church and Sunday school with their mom, to learn the morality/life lessons, and let them choose on their own whether to be believers or not as they aged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted June 18, 2017 Author Share Posted June 18, 2017 What about the millions of people who don't receive a well balanced education, from either the state or parents? If they were never on track, what are they getting back to? That's a reason why there is still so much religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 That's a reason why there is still so much religion. And that's bad, because? and interestingly there were good people before the morality/life lessons courses, when the morality/life lessons courses were taught in Sunday School I also am an atheist. My wife is religious, but not fanatical. We sent two on the bottom right to church and Sunday school with their mom, to learn the morality/life lessons, and let them choose on their own whether to be believers or not as they aged. What did they choose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted June 18, 2017 Author Share Posted June 18, 2017 And that's bad, because?Don't you think it's better that people have a balanced education and are on track? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Don't you think it's better that people have a balanced education and are on track? Yes, of course, I just don't think that balance excludes religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted June 18, 2017 Author Share Posted June 18, 2017 Yes, of course, I just don't think that balance excludes religion.True but a balanced education reduces the chance on someone becoming religious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 True but a balanced education reduces the chance on someone becoming religious. Well, that's up to them but why is that automatically a bad thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Yes, of course, I just don't think that balance excludes religion. Most religions seem to think it does. We re not going to help the next generation by teaching hatred in the way that religion does.(It's not the only one but it still does it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) We re not going to help the next generation by teaching hatred in the way that religion does.(It's not the only one but it still does it) We at last seem to agree, not about religion per se, but that both sides are equally capable of teaching hate. Edited June 18, 2017 by dimreepr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 We at last seem to agree, not about religion per se, but that both sides are equally capable of teaching hate. Who said anything about equality? Most of the major religions are stuffed full of hate, but secularism only throws it up occasionally. There's the run-of-the-mill contempt that many politicians have for people but even that's not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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