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Would the world be a better place without religion?


Itoero

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This is a pathetic argument.

They're been debating for 30 pages, and you come in with a simple "yes."

It's not that simple, and you can't possibly know for certain. Just the way it is.

There is no argument in the absolute truth, God is a thought manifestation of hope.

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We can have hope without the need to make up things and preying to imaginary ears.

Is hope without religion a 'better' version of hope?

People who believe are not "making things up".

Edited by zapatos
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I'm not sure what that means or why you are telling me that. Can you please try again?

It means resistance is futile ''they'' already run the joint.

Is hope without religion a 'better' version of hope?

Yes , everybody can have hope, everyone could agree we all hope there is more than just this.

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LOL, just do the homework and then get back to us.

Religious books were written by man, the best narcissists ever.

Then why did you say resistance is futile and that they already run the joint?

I've got to admit I'm not following your argument.

Religion keeps the world divided.

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They are not random, governments control you, religion controls governments. No religion, no need for a divided planet , no need for passports. Free men.

My good gentlemen.

I feel the need to inform you(while smoking my magical invisible cigar and standing in a suit at your door), that your argument has hit rock bottom and has proceeded to dig.

Good day.

4e2e5b241aa09d846b5c16841c4721f7_i-bid-y

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Religious books were written by man, the best narcissists ever.

Religion keeps the world divided.

 

I'm not sure narcissism divides us by creed as much as it divides us by social status. Narcissists appear to have abnormally low Agreeableness, but they have average or slightly above average Openness. On the other hand, racists are characterized by slightly lower Agreeableness and abnormally low Openness.

Narcissists tend to have normal, or perhaps slightly above average, "empathy" skills or social skills, but they use these skills to earn the liking of people whom they can acquire something from, especially people with higher social status. This tendency toward elitism is paired with a tendency to put down people of lower status. Alas, being low status is not the same as being an outsider, although the two are often related.

 

Edited to add reference with quote. Antognism is just reversed Agreeableness.

 

A Meta-Analytic Review of the Relationships Between the Five-Factor Model and DSM-IV-TR Personality Disorders: A Facet Level Analysis

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2614445/

 

Similarly, pathological bias (e.g., racism) has received some support within the clinical and research literature as a variant of personality disorder (Alarcon et al., 2002; Bell, 2004, 2006). There is currently no representation of prejudice within the DSM-IV-TR but, if one did want to conceptualize prejudice as a maladaptive personality trait, it is again readily represented within the FFM in large part as closed-mindedness toward ideas (along with facets of antagonism; Flynn, 2005). In sum, the failure of the openness to be heavily represented within the DSM personality disorder nomenclatures may say more about a limitation of the DSM than the FFM.

 

I think religion can be elitist. Many religions have reinforced social classes, for example the caste system that was reinforced by the Vedas but challenged by the Upanishads. Of course the priests belonged to a higher caste. However Siddhartha Guatama Buddha treated "untouchables" with compassion in rebellion against earlier teachings. Similarly, early Christianity was sort of a lower-class rebellion against the Roman elites, and its central figure, Jesus, repeatedly commanded his followers to give up their posessions.

Despite religiosity being related to higher Constraint (Agreeableness + Conscientiousness), it appears to be unrelated to some of the core narcissistic traits such as (im)modesty. This might reflect the greater similarity of narcissism to the primary psychopath over the secondary subtype. Unlike the secondary psychopath (sociopath), the primary psychopath exhibits preserved social skills and a tendency to blend in, which could be related to the narcissistic tendency to "suck up", if you will.

Edited by MonDie
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  • 4 weeks later...

!

Moderator Note

It seems half of the posters in this thread have forgotten that we have rules regarding civility and insulting other members. Those members may consider themselves officially warned. Tampitump, while the trolling isn't necessarily against the rules, your subsequent posts most certainly were. You have been suspended for 1 year.

 

Everyone else, stick to the topic, and stop the insults. It won't be tolerated.

While normally I would never post something regarding a moderator note as criticism of said notes is strictly against the rules. I would like to spread the words of wisdom of Leonardo Da Vinci: "Where there is shouting there is no knowledge".

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As I ponder this, it seems as though narcissists lack integrity but still consider the consequences whereas the "secondary psychopath" acts without regard for the consequences. This could be why the secondary psychopath exhibits more deviant ("Social Deviance" subscale), or even criminal, behavior. This could be contrasted with impaired honesty-humility.

 

Grit or Honesty-Humility? New Insights into the Moderating Role of Personality between the Health Impairment Process and Counterproductive Work Behavior (Ceschi, startori, Dickert, Costantini, 2016)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5147463/

Honesty-Humility measures the disposition to not take advantage of other individuals, even when there is no risk of unfavorable repercussion for such exploitation (Ashton and Lee, 2008). People low in Honesty-Humility are portrayed as egoistic, lying, haughty, fraudulent, unethical, hypocritical and cunning (Lee and Ashton, 2006).

Considering this description, it is not unexpected that low Honesty-Humility is linked with a certain range of questionable behaviors. Low Honesty-Humility individuals have an inclination to deceive, craft, and break rules, searching for the chance to take part in self-interested behaviors (Lee et al., 2005a). The HEXACO Honesty-Humility dimension has consistently predicted workplace deviance and CWBs [Counterproductive Work Behaviors].

 

This could also be framed in terms of group norms. We conform with the group to avoid being punished by the other group members, i.e. to avoid the consequences. Thus secondary psychopaths might be seen as violating group norms without regard for how the group will view their behavior. In some contexts, failure to conform with the group despite the consequences can actually indicate a high level of integrity, something narcissists appear to lack.

The prevalence and structure of obsessive-compulsive personality disorder in Hispanic psychiatric outpatients (Ansell et al, 2010)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2862854/

 

Multi-factor models of OCPD were tested and the two factors - perfectionism and interpersonal rigidity - provided the best model fit. Interpersonal rigidity was associated with aggression and anger while perfectionism was associated with depression and suicidal thoughts.

[...]

Perfectionism and detail-oriented criteria loaded strongly on the perfectionism factor, the workaholic criterion loaded moderately and packrat loaded weakly. Morality and reluctance to delegate loaded strongly on the interpersonal rigidity factor, stubbornness loaded moderately, and miserly loaded weakly.

Edited by MonDie
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Religion never made much sense to me and I always viewed (and still do) those who believe in God to be a little out of touch with reality.

 

If God really existed and was all-loving and all-powerful then he would not create a world with so much cruelty and misery. But the fact is the world we live in has too much cruelty, ugliness and misery in it.

 

The reality is that belief that God exists is just an extreme form of wishful thinking and to me that equates with being completely out-of-touch with the cold and harsh reality that we live in.

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