Humans, how?

[Zeo]

Let's take a good look at how rapidly humans have progressed. Let's say, in the early 1400's. Back then, humans believed the world to be flat (....how exactly would they know when they would fall off?) and that if you journeyed too far by boat, then you would fall of the face of the Earth. Christopher Columbus, proved that wrong. Later, in about maybe 1800's, humans have colonized just about every continent (excluding antarctica) on the Earth. But, humans don't really make a huge leap until the 1950's, when humans sent up Sputnik (mind you, I'm not too familiar with dates, so don't blame me if the dates are wrong). After that, humans were on a steep hill of technological advancement. In the 1970's (again...not too hot on dates), humans developed a computer, primitive, yes, but still, it oculd do basic calculator functions, and took up seven rooms. Now, humans have sent up numerous satellites, have propelled humans into space, and have transformed that massive seven room oversized calculator into tiny handheld processors that can fit on your key-chain. As for the computers, now, our computers can make millions upon millions of calculations per second, and we've even set up a network of computers using interfaces called "phone lines". or, the Internet. Has anyone heard about the Earth Simulator? It's a massive computer filled with hundreds (okay..maybe exaggerating there) of processors. It can calculate trillions of calculations per second, and has simulated Earth for up to ten years in the future, all the way up to thousand years into the future. Humans have made several advances through the short time of the 20th century. Now, as we emerge into the glorious 21st century, I find it hard not to imagine humans exploring different star systems, or creating great starships within the next century....


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[Katie]

On the contrary, most people knew the Earth was round before Columbus set sail.
Not that it has anything to do with what you're asking... Just thought you should know. I hate misconceptions.

[*Marmite*]

i like the idea of the world being flat. wud b interesting

[Radical Edward]

well it depends on the physics of it. If it is too expensive and difficult to get to the stars, then I cn't se us doing it. Capitalism will probably kill any dreams that people have.

[Katie]

Not so sure about that...

[grazzhoppa]

Communication and sharing of information makes all that possible. Why don't tiny mice have time to make a language? Because they are too busy trying to survive...to live, if word got around on how to get food easily and hide from or even kill a predator (snake) easily...they would have more time and would develope faster (as a species). You see the exponential growth of our technology and understanding of the world (science) because we develope better ways to communicate with each other which saves us time and that leads to us doing more as a species. Why should you and another human work on the same problem when one could be doing it while the other works on the next step? Then you share your information...and you now have more time to go onto bigger and better things. I'd say from this logic that the printing press was the greatest invention of all time...it was probably equivalent to the impact of the Internet.

It also helped that humans had the right body (thumbs, hands and such) to help with using tools which started it all.

But I believe in the future the sharing of information will be policed....or regulated is a better word. The advancements of what we can do will heavily depend on money (wealth) and politics (power)....just as it always has been since the first settlement and government.

I agree with Radical Edward that what we do will depend on the expense...unless something catostrophic happens. Capitalism does have its boundries but the beauty of capitalism is that it is usually accompanied with democracy, which can be reformed when it is absolutely necessary.

[Radical Edward]

Originally posted by Katie
Not so sure about that...

no? what is happening to NASA's budget then?

[aman]

Now that commercial enterprises are looking at the stars I think we will get there a lot quicker. The masses have a lot of money and power not under Gov't control and can move mountains.
Just aman

[Ahmad]

Originally posted by grazzhoppa
Communication and sharing of information makes all that possible. Why don't tiny mice have time to make a language? Because they are too busy trying to survive...to live, if word got around on how to get food easily and hide from or even kill a predator (snake) easily...they would have more time and would develope faster (as a species). You see the exponential growth of our technology and understanding of the world (science) because we develope better ways to communicate with each other which saves us time and that leads to us doing more as a species. Why should you and another human work on the same problem when one could be doing it while the other works on the next step? Then you share your information...and you now have more time to go onto bigger and better things. I'd say from this logic that the printing press was the greatest invention of all time...it was probably equivalent to the impact of the Internet.


Language, actually, was proven to be innate in human beings. Language in human beings is important not only as means of communication, but for logical thinknig too. It is something in our genome.

[Radical Edward]

Originally posted by aman
Now that commercial enterprises are looking at the stars I think we will get there a lot quicker. The masses have a lot of money and power not under Gov't control and can move mountains.
Just aman

Governmnt could get there alot quicker if it had any drive. jsut think f the mount of money wasted because ESA, Lockheed etc etc are all spending money developing entirely different rockets, when they may as well dump it all into something a bit more innovative.

[Giles]

Originally posted by Ahmad


Language, actually, was proven to be innate in human beings. Language in human beings is important not only as means of communication, but for logical thinknig too. It is something in our genome.
could you be more specific or give a source?

[Adam]

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[liljohnak]

I like this topic :)
my reply is people have a drive to make life easier by solving one problem and inturn creating a new set of them. First before we go to space there should be a need. like overcrowding or some sort of disaster. we are a very inovative species when we are pushed into the fire.
another thing that could push us into space exploration is just our curyosoty of what is out there. for that is a need aswell to know all there is to know about our enviorment and be able to exploite it.
and i think that the goverment doesnt do a good job at getting anywhere as productivly as the private sector. there isnt the inishitive (i know i cant spell sh... let me have my illutions anyway that i can) , the drive, the need to suceed in the quest to find the answer. the thing that goverment has going for it is unity in a single direction and unlimited funds.
Goverment is more like a skeleton for the economy and individuals to grow on in a certain fashion. it can give direction not the inishutive to do it.

[liljohnak]

I like this topic :)
my reply is people have a drive to make life easier by solving one problem and inturn creating a new set of them. First before we go to space there should be a need. like overcrowding or some sort of disaster. we are a very inovative species when we are pushed into the fire.
another thing that could push us into space exploration is just our curyosoty of what is out there. for that is a need aswell to know all there is to know about our enviorment and be able to exploite it.
and i think that the goverment doesnt do a good job at getting anywhere as productivly as the private sector. there isnt the inishitive (i know i cant spell sh... let me have my illutions anyway that i can) , the drive, the need to suceed in the quest to find the answer. the thing that goverment has going for it is unity in a single direction and unlimited funds.
Goverment is more like a skeleton for the economy and individuals to grow on in a certain fashion. it can give direction not the inishutive to do it. but if it can find an inishutive for the private sector to want or need it then it will be accomplished. But that will still be a bit off for now because we dont have a reason to go out there yet in that manner. But im sure that our goverment will find us one someday.

[liljohnak]

it did it twice i thought i didnt do it sorry about that disregaurd the first one

[mister_me]

:bravo: this be a cool topic.

Think of this. We think that the exploration of the universe through starship travel would be an astronomical achievement, but we are way behind the times. Haven't you heard?

A long time ago in a
galaxy far, far away...


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A LONG TIME AGO. Thats a true story, by the way. It's not just a story, it's history. And it was a LONG TIME AGO. If they had star fighters, then we are prey just waiting to be found by interstellar smugglers, like Huts.

Our scientific discoveries are way behind the times.

[fafalone]

Also notable in this topic is the difference between intragalactic and intergalactic travel. In Star Trek terms, it would still take thousands of years at warp 9 to get to another galaxy.

[Ahmad]

Originally posted by Giles

could you be more specific or give a source?

Studies on infants around the world show that they all go through the same stages in learning a language. They start by learning words (from their own parents' languages), then by using telegraphic speech, and so on.

Our psychology professor also suggested that if you have two people that are isolated from the outside word, they would develop their own language. He even said that twins in many cases develop their own languages that is only understood by them.

Of course, the language itself is learned, the ability is what is innate.

[Matzi]

Originally posted by Ahmad
[...]Our psychology professor also suggested that if you have two people that are isolated from the outside word, they would develop their own language. He even said that twins in many cases develop their own languages that is only understood by them.[...]
One of our former emperors (some centuries ago) tried this in order to get to know "god's language" (he thought the language learned by these two children on their own would be god's language). He failed. Both children died.

[liljohnak]

that brings up an interesting point what is our inert language?

what i think it is:

language is the conveying of ideas and emotions so that others could understand them. i was watching a video on emotional developement and we start out with physical expressions. so i guess if we just showed are language with physical expressions with our face our whole life we would be offuly renkely...jk

so why do we talk? im not sure why?:confused:

[Matzi]

Originally posted by liljohnak
[...]so why do we talk? im not sure why?:confused:
If anyone has an idea let us know about it...

[Ahmad]

liljohnak ..

Billions of years ago, that was actually the case. People could only use physical expressions as means of conveying thoughts and information. Then a mutation happened and some people gained the ability to speak. So there were two colonies: the mutas (can't talk) and the spichas (can talk).

One day, the king of the spichas sent the king of mutas a gift, spichas' most advanced and sophisticated mobile phone with GPRS, bluetooth, color display and all the goodies. The king of mutas felt so offended and declared war against the spichas.

The two armies were lined up against each other, and war there was. After 15 minutes, the spichas sent their secret batch of army men from behind. Mutas' observers could easily see the spichas coming, and they wanted to warn their troops. Of course, that was too hard, because the troops were busy fighting and they couldn't see the message (being broadcasted in physical expressions).

That is actually how natural selection selected out people without the ability to speack.

Sorry, for the OT.

[liljohnak]

i like that analogy its a good one.

[Matzi]

@ahmad :D

[Deathby]

Humanity has been focusing, then excelling in one field at a time for a very long time. Perhaps this is some evolutionary sideeffect of intelligence- we have to ponder something at one time. It just so happens that this particular modern focus happens to be so successful in evolutionary terms.

First it was food gathering (or something I dunno). In the time of the Ancients it was empire-building, culminating in the Roman Empire, and possibly the later English, French and Dutch colonisation empires. But in the end all these empires sort of petered out and were replaced by democracies.

Whilst we may think of science beginning with the Greeks it really was a part of philosophy. It was introspective "science". There haven't really been many huge developments in philosophy since then. Maybe a few choice quotes here and there "I think therefore I am" yada yada, but on the whole most of the big stuff was done then.

In approximate chronological order... The Romans were poets and orators. The Arabians were matheticians. The Christians were religious and moralists. They excelled in those fields and refined them to a point where all major discoveries have really been made and now are being fine-tuned.

Science has exploded and now it seems its petering out. To give one example, medicine, before it was just Alexander Fleming with one petri dish (an exageration of course) now its giant pharmaceutical companies with giant amounts of cash. But they are making less discoveries than ever.

To me we're not making giant amounts of progress for the time alloted. We just so happen to be focusing on a field which has so many different applications to "real life".

[Sayonara³]

Science has exploded and now it seems its petering out. To give one example, medicine, before it was just Alexander Fleming with one petri dish (an exageration of course) now its giant pharmaceutical companies with giant amounts of cash. But they are making less discoveries than ever.

The rate at which discoveries are made using the scientific method is not related to the inherent value of that method.

To some extent we are limited by our tehnology, which is sort of ironic but there you go (as in your pharmaceutics example - there are only so many useful configurations of chemicals we can actually make right now). As detection technologies and soforth improve we will discover whole new worlds of things to poke around, and whole new ways of poking them.

We are, for example, on the thresholds of nanotechnology, stem cell medicine, and artificial intelligence - all of which will eventually revolutionise our civilisation.

[JaKiri]

Science has exploded and now it seems its petering out. To give one example, medicine, before it was just Alexander Fleming with one petri dish (an exageration of course) now its giant pharmaceutical companies with giant amounts of cash. But they are making less discoveries than ever.

Shock as 'easier discoveries made first'. It doesn't mean the scope of possible knowledge is any lest vast, or that innovation and discovery are slowing down.

[ecoli]

Knowledge is power. As humans develop better ways to comminicate knowledge, we will also get possesive over that knowledge. Knowledge is the way to make money. If I have a new invention that will enable me to travel throughout the universe, why would I share that knowledge freely, if I can sell it for a profit. (Not that I'm greedy, but I'm just trying to be realistic).

I have a feeling that as time goes on, information will start costing more. You'll see free information websites dissapear.

[Sayonara³]

Knowledge is power.
Not necessarily.

I have a feeling that as time goes on, information will start costing more. You'll see free information websites dissapear.
You have missed the short-lived "pay per content" scare by about 3 years.

[Drug addict]

I have a feeling that as time goes on, information will start costing more. You'll see free information websites dissapear.

I can't really comment on the second part of that statement, but as for the first part, information is expensive at the moment, just look at the scientific publishing industry.

And if someone could explain to me why the publishing industry still exists as it does? As I understand it, the process is something like this:

- University does research, funded by Government (ok, I know there are some exceptions)

- Findings published in a journal

- University subscribes to journal, at large cost, again paid for by Government.

Can someone please explain to me why this model still exists? :confused:

[Nalos Surith]

Because people are money hungry (not to mention we need it to survive in this world). If something is a product it will be sold, someway or another regardless.

[[Tycho?]]

Knowledge is power. As humans develop better ways to comminicate knowledge, we will also get possesive over that knowledge. Knowledge is the way to make money. If I have a new invention that will enable me to travel throughout the universe, why would I share that knowledge freely, if I can sell it for a profit. (Not that I'm greedy, but I'm just trying to be realistic).

I have a feeling that as time goes on, information will start costing more. You'll see free information websites dissapear.

I disagree. It has always been true that knowledge has influence, and value. In todays world especially everyone realizes this, and with the wide availability of technology, a bit of knowledge is more valuable and dangerous than ever before.

Yet information is becoming more and more freely available. It has ballooned with the internet, and is still growing by leaps and bounds. Just look at wikipedia, totally free, its now the largest encyclopedia in the world. It seems people are more willing to share, as most people have no reason to hoard knowlegde.

(certain things, like miltary techonology, is and always will be more secrative)

[Zeo]

Since people started going away from the question as to why human's talk, let me offer my answer (though it's a bump).

I believe that humans have gained the ability to speak though a constant refinement of language. The same principle of refinement is still in place today, though we barely notice. Think back to the dawn of Man's intelligence. And really, it wasn't a dawn or anything. It's not as if Man just got up and started grunting and gesturing like crazy or something. It was a very long transgression, and involved a large network of gesturing. It also involved new types of memory, certain parts of the brain being implemented, certain parts of the brain developing out of mutation that were better equipped to deal with language recognition and facial and gesturial (not a word) recognition. So we can't truly say that Man suddenly started talking, or started coming up with words, but we can say that man did start grunting.

Let's say that 3 primal humans are hunting at night. it's really dark out, and their hunting a deer. (or whatever). They can't exactly gesture with their hands what direction they think the deer is in, so they can do a looow grunt.

ERGHHM! Or something like that. Maybe not that loud. But that's not truly the point.

My point is that Man did not suddenly just start talking, and he didn't just start grunting either. I'm sure that it took some innovative soul to start adding his/her grunts to their gestures about some piece of meat and where it was, or something like that.


About knowledge though: You have to remember that Intelligence (knowledge of enemy movements or other war related info) is rather vital to war. Knowing and understanding what your enemy is going to do can mean victory or defeat for a general who knows what their doing.

Another thing is scientific knowledge. Lately, it's become something of a status symbol for countries, based on research projects and what-not. Remember the Arms race between U.S. and the U.S.S.R.? So yes, knowledge is important.