Marijuana evolution

[Dokta]

Ask anybody who smokes weed and they will tell you they like nature. The stereotypical stoner hippies always want to save animals and forests. I began smoking about 3 years ago on a casual basis and since I have taken an intrest in biology and evolution and I think it is because of weed. So you have to admit that there is something in weed that makes you like and appreciate nature.

So there is something in the chemical THC that when the brain gets high on it over a period of time it slowing makes you like nature. But is this just a fluke of evolution that this plant gets this unusual chemical or is there something behind evolution...like a god.

So how does science explain the evolution of THC in marijuana without saying from random mutations when this plants evolution had a goal. Humans are smart and destructive so marijuana get us high while slowing making our minds appreciate and like nature. And it makes us peaceful. Maybe nature has the key to world peace.

[Crash]

I know quite alot of people who smoke quite alot of ganga, and id just like to say most arent your sterotypical hippies......to be honest i rarely see this in cannibis users. Maybe the fact that it slows your mind down so much you seem to notice the small things in life.....
But i would still like toi know what the THC's role is in the plant

[fafalone]

Take your stereotypes and return to your cave.

I'm not like that, and neither are most of the people I know who do it.

[Skye]

I guess the explanation of THC would be that it's a form of protection. If you were to start grazing on marijuana, I think you'd feel pretty ill.

[Sayonara³]

So how does science explain the evolution of THC in marijuana without saying from random mutations when this plants evolution had a goal. Humans are smart and destructive so marijuana get us high while slowing making our minds appreciate and like nature. And it makes us peaceful. Maybe nature has the key to world peace.
This is called the "Correlation vs. Causation" fallacy.

[Crash]

Take your stereotypes and return to your cave.

I'm not like that, and neither are most of the people I know who do it.
you smoke? didnt think that would help uni.......i totally agree with you though

[fafalone]

Maybe once every few months.

You can take your stereotypes of drugs being bad for grades and other academics and return to your cave :P

[Crash]

Me? im a smoker aswell and totally understand your point of view, i was the one who said "and id just like to say most arent your sterotypical hippies" in my first post

[fafalone]

I have a high GPA in a science major at a top tier private university and coadmin this site, and I do things way beyond smoking a joint. My point is the stereotype that people who do such things is equally invalid, and I don't appreciate the comment "didn't think that would help uni.."

[Crash]

Sorry about the comment, but i didnt sterotype it...i said quite the opposite

[Marz Man]

Jeeze faf, thought you would be the last person to touch anyting. Glad its not anything heavier, nor more frequent. I'm sure with all you do, you need to unwind once and a while:-p I still havn't touched it, anything for that matter.

btw... mom smokes it, shes a major manager at the IRS. Supposedly the best in the country on her level. She smokes it like 2-3 times a day maybe.

[Crash]

, nor more frequent. I'm sure with all you do, you need to unwind once and a while:-p I still havn't touched it, anything for that matter.


Good, its advisable not to.
I know a good number of people who were once decent and had brains but with excessive use they just got brain dead and became idiots..........most of my area actually, (i live in the "drug capital" of NZ)

[Marz Man]

Good, its advisable not to.
I know a good number of people who were once decent and had brains but with excessive use they just got brain dead and became idiots..........most of my area actually, (i live in the "drug capital" of NZ)

Yea, I never plan on doing anything, ever. Brother was killed because his ride decided to pick him up drunk and high. Hit a telephone pole at 114MPH. That and found some type of viles in my basement when I was 10 or so. Forever straied from anything.

[Crash]

I feel for ya.........

[fafalone]

Jeeze faf, thought you would be the last person to touch anyting. Glad its not anything heavier, nor more frequent.


well actually... lets just say marijuana is not my substance of choice. and i know lots of people like me who can handle things once in a while without any problems or habituation...

on another note, would you happen to be marzman from vb5? ;)

[Marz Man]

well actually... lets just say marijuana is not my substance of choice. and i know lots of people like me who can handle things once in a while without any problems or habituation...

on another note, would you happen to be marzman from vb5? ;)

Oi:-( don't tell me its worse. I would hate to hear that:-(

And yes, I am:-p

[fafalone]

get on aim and IM me bastard :P

fafaione

[PerpetualYnquisitive]

:eek:

Have you not seen the 'Scientifically Accurate' documentary "Reefer Madness"?

Oh no, the tree-hugging, animal-saving, bong-toting Hippies are gonna take over the planet and force you to wear tie-dyed hemp. Quick everyone to the 'Patriot Cave' and put on your 'Homeland Blinders' and maybe you won't be overrun by the Ganga gangs roaming free in Potsville, USA.

[matter]

a long time ago people probably discovered marijuana by accident, and then cultivated it. Marijuana might interest you in nature when you first start smoking it but usually after a while it just becomes a way to relax for some people.

[felinlasv]

It all depends on how you define 'drugs'. What's considered drugs in one country can be perfectly legal in another country. So linking people who use drugs occasionally to being bad for society isn't right.
Does anyone of you now that alcohol is considered a 'hard drugs' but still perfectly legal in almost every country? You can't kill yourself by smoking a lot of marijuana, but it's fairly easy to drink yourself straight into a hospital.
What about the people that drink coffee the entire day? It wouldn't suprise me that if you used pure caffeïne you'd more or less get the same effect as using cocaïne since they're both stimulants.
So are we considering coffeedrinkers to be criminals? No, ofcourse not. Why not? It just all depends on how a person handles whatever he or she does. Too much simply is too much, you just have to know you're limits and that counts for everything we do..

[Glider]

Drugs are drugs anywhere on the planet. Whether or not they are legal varies from country to country, but the definition of 'drugs' has already been...er..defined.

[felinlasv]

true again, but that's just a minor detail compared to what I was trying to point out

[Thorin]

Back to the subject: To imply that the plant somehow wants to defend itself by introducing "pro-nature" thought patterns into another organism, goes too far and suggests an active intelligence. I would agree that THC probably started out as a defense mechanism and then, when its effects were accidentally discovered when someone dumped a load of it on the fire, was selectively cultivated for potency.

[EvolvEarth]

You're going by pure anecdotal evidence. Going by my anecdotal evidence, I only know a few people who smoke pot who actually care about nature. Most of the people I know who smoke pot couldn't care any less for the environment.

[fafalone]

In fact I imagine the percent of smokers who are into nature is just about the same as in the general population.

[Chem-Maniac]

I'd like to come back to the original question guys: Why THC in plants?
My theory: Plants develope different kinds of poisons, which are able to kill animals, who eat those plants. THC might have had a bad influence on animals like maybe certain Insects. This of course is just a theory of mine.

[drz]

From what I've understood, thc is like a plant anti-freeze. This is why you let plants grow until after the first frost. The freezing temperatures cause more of the thc to move from the stalk to the buds to help protect them. This in turn makes the pot more potent.

In humans, I think I read over at newscientist that we have a similar chemical to thc in our brains which helps with erasing memorys.

[jbbrat01]

Just my two cents...

Modern pot has THC because, just like other plants, humans discovered its 'qualities' and cultivated it based on that. The origin of THC in the plant is most likely of a protective nature. The more an animal eats of the plant, the more sloth like it gets. So, from several standpoints the sloth-like induced state would prevent animals from eating more or avoid the plant completely (Prey animals would be less effective at avoiding predators and such). Besides, in some animals, such as rabbits and canines, THC is poisonous and lethal in what would be considered small or moderate doses for humans.

Hmm... I think the anti-freeze theory is interesting and very probable. However, why would an annual plant (non-perrenial) need to stay alive through the winter or cold weather?

Anyway, I'm an infamous pothead that's trying to slow down (it IS addictive) and I'm a science major and on my way to grad/med school.

[drz]

well, there was a point in time when it grew wild. I've heard that old classic rock song "The day the music died" (can't remember the artist or actual song name), anyhow, the part where it says "Drove my chevy to the levy but the levy was dry" was actually reffering to all the wild pot that grew on the banks of rivers already being picked cleaned.

The antifreeze thing is what I've always understood. Also, pot is not the only plant to posses THC. Catnip, for instance, posseses a much smaller amount.

Makes you wonder if you couldn't grow some strong strain of catnip.

[jbbrat01]

"drove my chevy to the levy but the levy was dry,
and good old boys were drinking whiskey and rye,
singing this'll be the day that I die,
this'll be the the day that I die."

"Bye, bye Miss American Pie"

Yeah, that's definately the name of the song, American Pie.

Of course it grew wild at one time and still does in many places. I was trying to connect the antifreeze evolution to protective advantages and finally to human cultivation for the THC. Base on these three significant advantages of the endogenous cannabinoid, natural and artificial selection favored plants with THC and probably high THC plants over lower THC plants.

I still think the plant making people like nature is a crock. Maybe the love of nature makes one more apt to experiment with a plant from nature.

[drz]

agreed, most the potheads I know show their love for nature by tossing their taco bell wrappers on it.

[AzurePhoenix]

Caffeine is an invalid point when compared to intoxicants and stimulants. For one thing, its a micronutrient essential to brain chemistry. It's found in apple's for god's sake(very small amounts)!
any form of recreational drug is stupid and amoral. mostly stupid. sorry, but i don't care if i offend anyone by saying that anyone who drinks, does any form of drug-taking, or even smokes nothing but basic cigs, they're all morons without any common sense or respect for their bodies, minds, or for those around them.
Zero tolerance!!!!!!!!
One of the reasons I left cheer-squad in the first place was because half of those ditzes were huge crank-heads. You name it, they did it, pot, acid, coke, hard liquor, even pcp and clorox bleach. funny thing is, you couldn't really tell to look at them. They seemed nice and normal, but soon as school let out they were at some guy's house frying their brains out. Only difference was they were WAY more likely to get knocked up. All the girls on the squad, myself included, had lots, i mean lots of sex, but of the half of us that didn't get stoned, none of us got saddled with a kid. On the other hand, all but one of the stoner-girls either ended up with a kid or had an abortion, at least once. One girl in particular had six abortions before she o.d.'ed on crank.

[NavajoEverclear]

all i can say to that is holy shit. But hey i just found a solution to the enviromental problems the u.s. causes--- invite all the pothead idiots to one big national party, and give them a drug that kills them all. They wanted to die anyway. Well there would still be a lot of sober assholes left, we can work with illiminating them later.

Just one question, amoral? reading your post you sound a lot like a mormon, until you talked about all your sex. How is your sex NOT amoral? I'd say its a lot less immoral than the drugged up sex accompanied with the abortions, but where exactly do your morals lie if its OK for you to promiscious? Not telling you what you should think or anything, i'm just a little confused by your choice of words. Actually, i dont really care if you reply or not, but if you do it'd be nice if you explained yourself

[badchad]

Caffeine is an invalid point when compared to intoxicants and stimulants. .

caffeine is a stimulant

For one thing, its a micronutrient essential to brain chemistry. It's found in apple's for god's sake(very small amounts)!

marijuana grows naturally, cocaine comes from the cocoa plant, and opiods are derived from plants for god's sake!


any form of recreational drug is stupid and amoral. mostly stupid. sorry, but i don't care if i offend anyone by saying that anyone who drinks, does any form of drug-taking, or even smokes nothing but basic cigs, they're all morons without any common sense or respect for their bodies, minds, or for those around them. Zero tolerance!!!!!!!! .

Similar to someone having pre-marital sex. Blasphemous! those people have no respect for others and must be morons. When the little "cheer girls" get knocked who has to pay their welfare to take care of their kids? your taxes at work.


One of the reasons I left cheer-squad in the first place was because half of those ditzes were huge crank-heads. You name it, they did it, pot, acid, coke, hard liquor, even pcp and clorox bleach. funny thing is, you couldn't really tell to look at them. They seemed nice and normal, but soon as school let out they were at some guy's house frying their brains out. Only difference was they were WAY more likely to get knocked up. All the girls on the squad, myself included, had lots, i mean lots of sex, but of the half of us that didn't get stoned, none of us got saddled with a kid. On the other hand, all but one of the stoner-girls either ended up with a kid or had an abortion, at least once. One girl in particular had six abortions before she o.d.'ed on crank.

clorox bleach? WTF?!?! I've never heard of it being used recreationally.

Well it's good you have your priorities in check. Drugs=BAD.
copious amounts of sex with multiple partners=GOOD

You should be proud. Your chances of having an STD are extremely high, but as long as you don't do drugs, or get knocked up you'll be allright.

[drz]

sorry, but i don't care if i offend anyone by saying that anyone who drinks, does any form of drug-taking, or even smokes nothing but basic cigs, they're all morons without any common sense or respect for their bodies, minds, or for those around them.
Zero tolerance!!!!!!!!

And you are basing this claim on what, your knowledge of the high school hoochies you know who did drugs? What an assumption.

"Make the most you can of the Indian Hemp seed and sow it everywhere."--President George Washington, 1794

Was he a moron? I don't like some of the harder drugs out there, but calling every person who uses drugs a moron is a bit of an overstatement, especially since it seems all your knowledge on the subject comes from your cheer leader squad. Its long since been known cheerleaders are easy, and generally promiscous, drugs or not.

Nah, I'd say all people that make rash generalizations about a group of people based on their limited high school expieriance are morons. And I also do not care if I offend.

[john5746]

don't care if i offend anyone by saying that anyone who drinks, does any form of drug-taking, or even smokes nothing but basic cigs, they're all morons without any common sense or respect for their bodies, minds, or for those around them.
Zero tolerance!!!!!!!!


Drinking a glass of wine is bad? Smoking is ok? The main seperation between tobacco and a joint is legality. Yes, the joint may affect you mind more - similar to alcohol.

It is a waste of time and money, but smoking is also. Alcohol has benefits, just don't get excessive or drive.

[AzurePhoenix]

I'm sorry if my phrasing was vague, mr.johnny, but i meant that smoking cigs is as bad as the rest. Any and all recreational drug use is criminal. You know what, i'm not sorry. I was not vague. You're just a moron if you can't read that for what it says. Muttermutter Jerk-off, muttermumble

[AzurePhoenix]

You know what, the taboo on sexuality is a strictly religious idiocy imposed by the same jerk-offs that decided that spirituality had to be organized in the first place.
Those morons, who destroyed the sanctity of life with their bible-loving psychosis, also destroyed the essense of a physical act that surpasses pleasure. Sex is a carnal act, that, if used properly, is safe, wholesome, and 100% pure. I'm no slut. I only banged guys and girls I knew well, had dated a few weeks (and seriously spied on), or knew to be clean.
I may have had alot, alot of partners, but i have been very careful to not contract any diseases.

And i'm no slut. I respect my partners, and make sure they know what i'm in it for.

If it's just physical, they know it beforehand

if its romantic and meant to last, they know it beforehand,

If I'm still planning on banging friends and "lovers" on the side, they know it beforehand.

i didn't bang those boys and girls for the emotional fuzziness that whores are always after, I did it purely for the physical euphoria of intercourse. I don't screw any guy or gal who calls me pretty. I don't have a porn collection. I don't have wierd fetishes ('cept for the semi-bisexual thing ((meaning i have no romantic interest in girls, just physical)) ) I understand how serious the act really is, and don't treat it lightly, but i do understand that love isn't all about sex, and vice-versa. Sex isn't the highlight of my life, it's just a nice-feeling part of it. It doesn't rule me, and it has little to do with the person I really am.

Also, if one day i'm just not careful enough, and multiple birthcontrol methods fail, i will do the responsible thing and raise my child as it should be. I would even give up my intimate pastimes (if the father turned out to be a loser and abandoned the baby.) I would understand if the father wasn't meant to be my eternal mate, and i would accept his non-romantic partnership in raising a child. But if he abandoned our baby, i would make his life a living hell. I've got a mean kick and a viper's tongue. I could ensure he'd never get laid again.

And unless my partner is present and participating, I never have sex with anyone other than my partner if we've been dating long enough to call ourselves exclusive. But that doesn't mean threesomes are out of the picture. Thank god.

ANY WHO DARE TO INSULT MY INTEGRITY ANY FURTHER SHALL SUFFER THE WRATH OF ONE SERIOUSLY SADISTIC PYRO-PSYCHOTIC-MANIAC!!!!!!!!

God, you pansies really need to grow up. This is the real world, not "Full House"

..... :mad:

[badchad]

I'm sorry if my phrasing was vague, mr.johnny, but i meant that smoking cigs is as bad as the rest. Any and all recreational drug use is criminal.

You do realize that the taboo on drug use is idiocy imposed by jerk-offs?

[AzurePhoenix]

Umm, derr, no? Not all of my experience is limited to pompom shaking skanks. Fortunately, i know a good life, and was raised in a good home, but our suburbs were real close to the slums of our area, so I got a high exposure to the ways of the streets from an early age. Everything I've stated has come from many nights of sitting by the river in deep thought, sitting alone beneath the oaks beneath a field of starlight.

The use of mind-altering drugs is self-destructive and dangerous. Even if you are stupid enough to use mind-altering substances, the fact is, no matter how noble or responspible you are (not very, considering your use of such substances) you will always pose a threat to others around you. Not to mention the effects certain drugs have on your genetic code, which can have horrible results on any future children that may be unlucky enough to be born to such a loser (these corrupted genes can be passed on by fathers as well as mothers).

I've met light users, heavy users, hardcore addicts and occasional "tasters", young kids who got hooked cuz' they found just a little bit of weed in their sister's jewelry box, supposedly mature adults (30 or even 40+ years old), who came to highschool parties with cases of beer and boat-loads of drugs. I've known a twelve year old girl, one that i love dearly, who I found out was raped and impregnated by a group of adult men at such a party while a hundred or more teens, including her brother and sister watched, She later lost the baby to drugs (although, in such a situation, a legally performed abortion would have been entirely acceptable, considering the risk to the little girl's health and the moral implications).

If you call my experiences limited, just because you snort coke, you can burn in hell, right beside that little girl's rapists. And trust me, they got what they deserved.

Any denial of the detrimental effects of recreational drug-use is just that, DENIAL! What, do you think racism, and sexism, and rape, and genocide are just taboo because a bunch of jerk-offs say they are? Of course not. But the fact is, those who commit the crimes are those who defend it with irrational loyalty, their arguments empty of calm and well-thought ideas and principals.

Simple fact is, drugs are an escape from reality, a veil drawn across the jewel (albeit a severely flawed, slightly toxic jewel) that the human mind is. It clouds our better judgement, and, like it or not, is foolish, childish, and, ultimately, evil!!!.

I have seen the dire effects of drug use. I have been burned by the embers that it casts, torn by its cruel reality. I have suffered, and i haven't even used any drugs. Isn't that enough to say it's wrong? Is something right if it hurts those who love you? Kills your friends?

Let me guess. You still think i'm cracked, don't you? You can't talk. Not until you've gone through what i have. How about this, I want you to go to the funeral of a friend who was killed by drugs, go over to that person's parents, and siblings, and tell them that it's alright, that it wasn't the drugs' fault, and then, right there, i want you to light one up, go on, get stoned right there. Maybe get stoned enough to take the corpse from the casket and maybe do a nice waltz, but it's ok, cuz' drugs are ok, and while you're at it you could get it on with the deceased little sister, pop a nut and make a beautiful, deformity-scarred little bundle of joy.

[badchad]

I enjoy your rational debate and eloquent use of 5th grade language. It makes you sound authoritative.

First of all, not all drugs are bad, take for instance LSD, there are no conclusive data indicating adverse effects due to it's use. It doesn't cause violence or aggression, thus, eliminating it's harmfulness to others.

Please provide me a reference where where drugs are able to "alter your genetic code", such that it is passed on to offspring. I'd love to see that reference as well. And please, don't give me any www.drugsarebad.com references either. I'd like a refereed journal article (if you know what that is). I would bet that your chances of an adverse effect resulting from STD's passed on during promiscuous sex are far greater then those caused by having a beer. Your argument of "I only screw guys that look clean" illustrates your level of intelligence.

The basic point is that: "Who are you to judge?". Just because a society deems drugs illegal does that necessarily make them bad? (the same is true for many other behaviors). Are you aware of the scientific gains that are made by studying particular drugs of abuse? The obvious answer is "no". You blindly follow the doctrine of what your parents and authoritative figures tell you. You cannot think for yourself to analyze a situation, or even acknowledge a viewpoint other then your own. Welcome to the flock sheep.

[Thales]

There is a reason drugs are labelled as bad by society. Its because over the course of more years than you have been alive, the denegration they have imposed on peoples lives for centuries, has been acknowledged. Sure they may help initally with feelings of self exploration and even spur some insight into bizarre concepts but the end game is that once people get addicted to them, which happes more often than not, it profoundly effect their lives in a negative way.

But at the end of the day its your choice. Making them difficult to obtain, by making them illega,l is societies only way of attempting to regulate the damage they can quite easily inflict when they are abused.

These opinions I have formed through my own experiences as I have been there and done that myself. Drugs do not contribute to your overall well being nor do they make you anymore interesting/productive a person. For that reason alone I say that while there is a time and a place to experiment, habitual drug taking is bad.

[AzurePhoenix]

What about the fact that even an innocent experiment can create a powerful addiction. Or the fact that a single bad use of a number of drugs can and do kill, even on the first try. Many people intend to just try it once, but very few let it stop there.

[AzurePhoenix]

Also, violence and aggression aren't the only adverse effects of drug-use. tobacco doesn't cause violent behavior, but it is still detrimental to the user and those around him/her
And you should also know that the current stance of law has nothing to do with my outlook. I don't give a flyingf*** as to what the president deems acceptable. Do you think the public's opinion and government's sway kept me from having sex underage? Or that it's nothing more than politics and public opinion that kept me from getting fried at parties when everyone around me was lighting up? When I was ostracized for my "anti-social" tendencies (meaning i chose not to get wasted)? or for liking girls?
I make my own choices. No one else. Nothing else.

[AzurePhoenix]

Am I a saint. 'course not! but I accept responsibility for my actions. I am not a slave to chemical cocktails or what's popular at the time. I don't even know what the name of today's favored music is called. (I'm a hardcore country fan. Chesney!mariah!shaniah!)

Quick question.

is it bad that i never knew who uncle kracker was until he sang with kenny chesney?

[AzurePhoenix]

Oh, last thing, Thales,
are you really from australia? I've always loved that accent (not quite as much as i like an irish accent, but it's better than british, or german for that matter)
of course, i mean no offense if you don't even have an accent, or if yours accent turns out to be german, for some freakish reason.

[Thales]

I am not from Australia but I reside here. I'm actually british but I moved here when I was very young, so for all intents and purposes I am Australian(except of course if I wish to work or travel or study in Europe then I revert to my other passport, oh the joys of dual citerzenship:-)). I do have an aussie accent according to my English cousins but then when I'm around them aparently I revert back to a slight British one according to my friends, which I find amusing based around the fact I moved here before I could really talk.

[AzurePhoenix]

hot

[AzurePhoenix]

Oh yeah, badchad, i don't just make sure it "looks clean." My circle has a very strict inspection process. Once a month we all get tested, and share the results. If someone new is screwed by anyone, either in the circle or on the side, suspend bang-sessions with that person, until safety is ensured.
I always wait a month or two to screw a new boyfriend, and even then, he has to be tested just before, and again every month. additionally, I always make my guys wear two condoms, usually a heavy duty under a ribbed or flavored one, (i know, it doesn't feel as good for the guy, but on the other hand, he can go a lot longer, which i feel is a good thing, 'specially when the moron takes a friggin' hour to give me an O.)
Once, when a member of our circle caught the clap, she caught it early on through testing without ever coming close to spreading it, and was removed until her treatments were long done (followed by an extra safety month and one last test, just to be positive), As you can assume, she trashed her boyfriend after that.

And as for LSD, it can severely impair the mind. I know for a fact that it causes confusion and severe anxiety (witnissed first hand), i've seen guys, and girls, use it only to come to think everyone was trying to kill them. Some sank into temporary depression. I knnow one guy who killed his cat while on it, 'cuz "it was "plannin' somethin' man, somethin' real bad!" (his words, or close to them).
Although LSD causes no physical addiction or physical harm, (so we are told) it still poses a threat to everyone around, albeit indirectly.

[drz]

Did you know in 2000,
435,000 people died from smoking cigarettes?
85,000 from drinking?
20,000 from sexual behaviours?

540,000 people in 2000, died from things that are perfectly legal.

Do you know how many people died from smoking pot? Quit draging other drugs into this, check the thread title. For one, this isn't even about whether pot is right or wrong, this is questioning the evolution of it. But you've spammed it enough you've forced me to break out the gloves.

So do you? How many people died of pot? How many people reported to the hospital for treatment of some physical ailment caused by pot?

In 2000, Of all the illegal drugs, there was only 17,000 deaths. Pot did not cause a single one of them.

Drugs in general are illegal, not to keep stupid people from enjoying life as you seem to believe, but because it causes the government to miss out on tax money. It causes big corporations to miss out on drug money. Hemp products would really hurt the cotton industry. Its a stronger product. You can make bio-diesal, and due to it only taking 120 days to grow in full, in a wide variety of enviroments, could actually provide a solution to the coming oil crunch.

And I mentioned in my other post I don't really agree with hard core drugs. I've seen them kill my family members at too young of an age. I've seen them ruin peoples lives. However, I know dozens, DOZENS of people who live a perfectly normal life, pay bills, raise children, own property and businesses, are respectable members of the community who smoke pot.

And whats funny, smoking pot is not illegal. Possesing it is. Same with any drug. This is a case of the government playing nanny trying to tell people how they need to live. Forget the fact that people have been using pot, and other drugs in some form, for THOUSANDS OF YEARS, we need to tell people what is best for them.

It would be much like the government deciding since so many people die from sexual diseases, it is illegal to have sex without marrying the person. As you mentioned, you seem to be rather carefull, test yourself and your partner often. You take the responsibility to live the lifestyle you choose to live. I would not dare call you a moron for being sexually active, why do you call me a moron, even though I take responsibility for the lifestyle I choose to live?

Thats the key, let me live how I want, you live how you want. As long as one of us isn't stepping on the others toes, we should have not trouble. You have no business, and neither do I, determining how someone else lives their life.

[AzurePhoenix]

Understood. I respect your argument (though i do not agree with it in its entirety). I also apologize if i actually offended you, but i fell really strongly about this and have never been one to hide my true feelings (especially over the internet, far enough away to avoid a sharp smack to the head)

[drz]

lol, understood. You did not actually offend me. Very little offends me, the least of which a persons opinion. My only reason for responding is that you hold some false beliefs about drugs, you don't seem to understand there is a difference between "Use" and "abuse".

Anything can be abused. I believe Jesus was the one who said "Everything in moderation". Drinking to much water can kill you, having to much sex (unsafely) or doing to many drugs. Eat too many cheeseburgers seems to be quickly approaching #1 killer.

[Darkstar04]

[QUOTE=AzurePhoenix]Oh yeah, badchad, i don't just make sure it "looks clean." My circle has a very strict inspection process. Once a month we all get tested, and share the results. If someone new is screwed by anyone, either in the circle or on the side, suspend bang-sessions with that person, until safety is ensured.
-----

Whatever. You are addicted to sex. You are the same as any other junkie who follows safe injection practices, you self-righteous sp**mbucket.

[AzurePhoenix]

As true as that cheeseburger thing is (damn, they're good with extra bacon and double-cheese!!!), i've met very few people who can handle anything in moderation. It's not how we're evolved. we still haven't gotten over that phase to take alot of what we want. So we do. Until our species (or some viable offshoot of it) developes the proper mental capacity to deny itself excess, anything that could be used safely in moderation (and let me remind you, some people, not many, but some, get totally wasted off of half a glass of wine.) It doesn't help that everything about modern society pretty much screams more more more. By saying "not everyone abuses it," you're pretty much saying "the rest doesn't matter, 'cuz those guys over there are responsible. Yeah those two, right there, behind the other three thousand." This isn't a one sided statement of course, just a simple point from a valid certain point of view.

[AzurePhoenix]

[Quote=Darkstar] - Whatever. You are addicted to sex. You are the same as any other junkie who follows safe injection practices, you self-righteous
sp**mbucket.

---------------

Ouch. Serious ouch...... but please, try to keep your tone even and rational. As i have learned in these last few sessions, (and i apologize for some of my earlier, more harsh accusations), simply spouting off does little to make a point, it simply demonstrates a lack in control and proves that he (or she) who does the spouting is clearly extremely biased. I don't believe you offered a valid contribution to the discussion as it is at this point :D

oh, yeah, i don't recall talking about unsafe drug use and the transmission of diseases associated with it. Besides, you don't have to be a HIV-infected needle-user, or even a heavy drinker to lose focus on the road and pin a mini-van against an Suburban with your truck.
Usually you don't get wasted from having sex. Although it would be quite a bad idea to get laid while driving. That's an orgasm you wouldn't soon forget, if you made it home alive. Oh, ouch, and can you imagine if your girlfriend was giving you an "oral treatment" while you were driving, and you had to sudenly hit the breaks. Oh, ouch :-(

[AzurePhoenix]

And as for the human use of drugs for thousands of year, much of that consisted (at least intially) as a way to embrace the spirit world. What they did (at first) was seen as magical and holy, not a way to get wasted for the heck of it.
And as far as i know, medicine men and shamans didn't just sit in their huts sucking flowers all day. It was, in most societies, a ceremonial ritual (i know, ceremony, ritual, redundant) they practiced carefully, often in moderation (based off of what we know to be true of their most recent decendents).
Secondly, you don't hear alot about stoned tribe elders crashing wooly rhinos into another clan's caves (of course, without a few of their newspapers, we'll never know)

[AzurePhoenix]

One last thing. DRZ, those numbers you gave stating number of deaths in 2000, did those numbers include deaths resulting of an indirect use of pot, whether the death of the user or someone else?
And don't say something like "anything can be deadly if you give it a chance."
I know that more people are killed each year by falling coconuts than by sharks, but that doesn't mean people who like those "snowball" pastries are putting themselves at risk. Although, i suppose that if people didn't eat coconuts, there would be fewer reasons for people to get near the trees, thus resulting in fewer deaths. BUt that's not the point. Anyway, I don't even like coconut.

And as for my "addiction to sex," that's a stupid accusation. I can live without it. I mean, recently I had a boyfriend who was totally boyscout, and didn't want premarital sex to occur (i didn't agree, but i wasn't going to break it off over something so trivial). I went three months without it before i broke up with him, and then, i only dumped him because i found out he was screwing antoher girl, after his phony speech about indulgence, and pretty much carving it in stone that ours' would be an exclusive, long lasting relationship made special by a pure, innocent outlook on love. Even then i suspected he was a stoner. Total crap. But he was nice and funny, so i put up with his religious hangups, and didn't even once considering giving in to temtation, and trust me, i know a few hot guys and girls who are really good in bed who wanted me to spend an hour or two with them in their rooms.
After that it took a while to trust another guy at all. Didn't get laid for another two months (unless a nightly vibrator session counts).

[Darkstar04]

Ouch. Serious ouch...... but please, try to keep your tone even and rational. As i have learned in these last few sessions, (and i apologize for some of my earlier, more harsh accusations), simply spouting off does little to make a point, it simply demonstrates a lack in control and proves that he (or she) who does the spouting is clearly extremely biased. I don't believe you offered a valid contribution to the discussion as it is at this point :D

Uh, yeah. Clearly biased. Uh huh. Sort of like your straw man arguments where you extrapolate the behavior of a few drug users to make bold statements amount all drug users.

oh, yeah, i don't recall talking about unsafe drug use and the transmission of diseases associated with it.

Not my point, either. My point is that your behavior increases risk of harm to you and others. You are, however, addicted to sex, your drug of choice. You take steps to reduce harm (which is commendable) But anyone can take such steps - like designated drivers etc.


Besides, you don't have to be a HIV-infected needle-user, or even a heavy drinker to lose focus on the road and pin a mini-van against an Suburban with your truck.

Another nice straw man argument, easily extended to simply outlaw and condemn any car larger then a toyota tercel. But I will rise to it -

DON'T USE RECREATIONAL DRUGS AND DRIVE!!

Usually you don't get wasted from having sex.

Heh. . .actually, the brain-chemistry is fairly similar.

Although it would be quite a bad idea to get laid while driving.

Just like drugs, too. . .hey, I'm liking this analogy.

Point is, you get all up on your friggin high horse about people who use drugs because you apparently (if I can believe what someone on the internet says) you have known an inordinate amount of morons. Well, I have known both drug users who ARE responsible, and sex addicts who weren't, and I'll take the former over the latter any day.

[AzurePhoenix]

agreed on that last statement. Of course, all the real sex-addicts i knew were depressed stoners anyway, which really didn't make the softcore users all that commendable

[AzurePhoenix]

Besides, sex sharpens the senses, it's like fight or flight

[AzurePhoenix]

Lastly, i never said people who do drugs are innately bad. The habit is. But they still made the choice to take up the habit, despite their knowledge of its effects. And so what if safe users outnumber bad users. does that still erase all the harm done by them? Isn't that almost kinda sorta saying that bad things should be ignored if neutral versions of the same thing outnumber the abusive ones?

[AzurePhoenix]

Does anyone else like Deep Thoughts, by jack Handy? I think they're awsome. I can read them for hours on end, over and over, and still bust a gut every time. Even if some of them do have alot to do with substance abuse (my version of a guilty indulgence in alcohol)

[NavajoEverclear]

By saying "not everyone abuses it," you're pretty much saying "the rest doesn't matter, 'cuz those guys over there are responsible. Yeah those two, right there, behind the other three thousand." This isn't a one sided statement of course, just a simple point from a valid certain point of view.

Even though your lifestyle vastly contradicts mine i will not judge you for it. However, just to comment on that statement, you fit in the EXACT same catagory. I've never HEARD of anyone who is as careful with sex as you are. Which if you are going do it, i guess is the best way. But you see, that point cant be used against him when it applies so perfectly to you. I have not yet participated in sex, and do not plan to take marajauna, but both are incredibly addictive and have caused tremendous trauma in many people's lives, psychologically and physically. You are BOTH among a minority that has figured a way to be resposible with dangerous tools, and society may never be ready to take on the level of responsibility that you have (if you both are indeed as capable of being responsible as you claim)

[AzurePhoenix]

I too, like tacos. And Everclear, how the hell does one design diatoms?
Also, sexual addiction usually is born from some separate psycological funk, or was brought upon a person by abuse. Unless you're just really horny. :D

[NavajoEverclear]

The tacos is an Invader Zim quote. Or as the devote of us call it scripture. And i dont really design diatoms. You do know what diatoms are right? no offense of coarse if you dont. I'll just mention them incase. They're protists (single cell eukaryotic organisms) with shells of silicon dioxide i believe, and they are very pretty looking (you of coarse need a microscope to see them)

[AzurePhoenix]

I new what they are, otherwise i wouldn't have given the statementy a second glance. I guess i was just stupid to assume that, wtih all the new-fangled bio-sciences in medicine and even modern art that someone might actually mess around with the things. You know, the way horticulturists ca control the growth and spiraling of a trunk, or use hormones to induce drastic, sometimes really cool changes.
And yes, they are very pretty, but some of them (i don't know the species names) can be quite large, large enough to see with the naked eye (not very well though).
Either way, I like nudibranches better

[drz]

Usually you don't get wasted from having sex.

Well, I'd say you haven't met the right guy yet :)

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I can't, and won't, really argue this point any further. Some people think drugs are bad, and regardless of how much information they are shown to the contrary will not change their mind. Same with sex, cheeseburgers or wine.

And no, those numbers did not account for the deaths caused by indirect usage. But I mean indirect pot smoking death could be some numbnuts stoner smoking a joint while driving (always use a pipe) and drop it down his pants, or on the floor, causing them to swerve and hit another car.

And you told me not too, but I will anyhow. My mother is a paramedic. She has never, NEVER picked up a person involved in an accident stoned. For one, they cannot verify stonedness, and two, most accidents happen with sober drivers, theirs more of them.

[ragamufn42]

I understand that it has been over a year since the last posting but was searching the web and found this forum and felt the need to add something.
1st the comment that all drugs are bad. I watch tv alot (a horrid thing I know) and i see drug commercials all day long are they all bad too. if you have high blood pressure and have tried diet and exercise but still can't get it low enough "too bad, drugs and bad"
2nd number of deaths per year that result directly or primarily from the following causes nationwide according to the World almanacs, LIfe Insurance actuarial rates and 20 years of surgeon general's reports.
asprin (including deliberate overdose)180-1000
caffeine(from stress, ulcers and triggering irregular heartbeats ,etc)1000-10000
illicicit drug overdose (deliberate or accidental from all illegal drugs)3800-5200
marijuana 0
marijuana users aslo have the same or lower incidence of murders and highway deaths and accidents than the general non marijuana using population according to crancer study ,uclaand mary other studies thru out the world for names of studies just ask

[ragamufn42]

original question guys: Why THC in plants?
My theory: Plants develope different kinds of poisons, which are able to kill animals, who eat those plants. THC might have had a bad influence on animals like maybe certain Insects. This of course is just a theory of mine.
I'm not sure wheather it is the thc or another of the chemical compounds in the plant or a combo of chemicals, but cannabis is able to be grown with out pestisides or herbicides. it also is able to protect its self from sun damage better than many plants.
In canada were they are growing hemp for its food(hemp seed oil very high in omega 3 and 6 and has G.L.A)hemp flour ( gluten free , high protein 41%.)and fiber, they are not using pesticides or herbicides and they soils are becoming more fertile, because they can now do a good three year crop rotation.
thanks for letting me vent. peace and love

[imasmartgirl]

I also wonder how the pot plant got it's THC. I love smoking weed. I smoke about 3 days a week. Thats when i can find any. I hate alcohol, and i never even touched any other drug. I smoke weed to relax and meditate. I dunno about it making people nature lovers, but my god nature looks so cool while high. :) Weed just makes everything better and funnier, especially Family Guy. :D

and as for AzurePhoenix :D link (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/flash/toomanyguys-groupx.html)

[The Peon]

Urgh... Its not about "addiction" its about "stimulation." We all take part in the stimulis struggle, its an inherent part of being human, and other animals face it too. Someone who is overstimulated in some parts of the lives they lead will gear them towards understimulating hobbies, such as fishing. Many people with layed back lifestyles will seek greater stimuli. Realize these stimulations can come from a variety of sources; sex, drugs, flying kites, driving, etc.

A rare animal indeed is the human who can balance the stimulis struggle to a point where his stimulation "pendulum" is always near the center of its swing. Most of us crash from one side to the other without even realizing it. Marijuana is one of those stimulations people seek because its a wonderous drug in the fact that it can either hype you up and cause greater stimulation, or slow us down and cause us to relax, all depending on mood.

I worked as security in a club for a long time, and I can tell you this much... Its much easier to deal with and remove an individual under the influence of marijuana then dealing with someone under the influence of alchohol. Usually the latter must be removed through violence and force, while the former can be convinced to leave without so much as touching them.

Lastly, illegalizing pot in the USA was a racist, political move against minorities the government had issues with at the time, much like Opium was illegalized because of the Asians in the 1900-1920s who were working in the west on railroads. I wont go in depth, but if you think marijuana is illegal because its bad for you you are sadly mistaken.. :rolleyes:

[Hellbender]

Lastly, illegalizing pot in the USA was a racist, political move against minorities the government had issues with at the time, much like Opium was illegalized because of the Asians in the 1900-1920s who were working in the west on railroads. I wont go in depth, but if you think marijuana is illegal because its bad for you you are sadly mistaken.. :rolleyes:
I say legalize it. My theory is that it won't be "cool" anymore, so everyone will stop doing it as much. Another fact is that if it was regulated, it would be harder for kids to get. When I was in high school, it was much, much easier to get a bag of that crap than a bottle of liquor.

[gmacrider]

It just amazes me that in our society alcohol is fine, but pot is illegal.

What an absurd situation.

[AzurePhoenix]

I don't care anymore. Restrict it in rationally necessary ways, implement strict laws for abuse, and make it legal. At least it reduces some profits for dealers that way.

as for AzurePhoenix link ROFL. That was great in a wierdly way.

[gib65]

While we're on the topic, does anyone know if marijuana causes permanent brain damage? I've read some studies that say pot's been shown to hinder short-term memories in heavy users, but it did not say what "heavy users" meant or what "hinder" meant. How frquently does a heavy user smoke and for how many years before effects on memory are noticed? Does a hindered memory mean permanently damaged memory or just not performing as well as it could be during and around the time of getting high?

[imasmartgirl]

weed is illegal for several reasons. none are because it harms you in any way. i think the main reason is cause it cannot be controlled. anyone can grow weed in their backyard. nobody would be able to make much money off it. and other companies would lose a lot of business. people may switch from alcohol to weed. alcohol is much more dangerous than weed but its still legal mainly because its not easy for people to just make their own.
and as for brain damage, weed may cause some short term memory loss while high but not after and there are no long term effects.

[Mokele]

While we're on the topic, does anyone know if marijuana causes permanent brain damage? I've read some studies that say pot's been shown to hinder short-term memories in heavy users, but it did not say what "heavy users" meant or what "hinder" meant.

Ok, now, I don't really have much to add to this debate except for on this point. The answer to the question has been a resounding "We don't know". This has been because, apparently, access to pot for experimental purposes is severely restricted, apparently more so than some other and worse drugs. This has greatly hindered our understanding of what it does, how it does it, atc, especially in long-term studies. Without this information, it's hard to make informed decisions, either personal or political.

Mokele

[Maioux]

It just amazes me that in our society alcohol is fine, but pot is illegal.

What an absurd situation.

Indeed. It's because the government makes tons of money from the taxation of alcohol and the "war on drugs". Money makes the world go round...

[ragamufn42]

The answer to the question has been a resounding "We don't know". This has been because, apparently, access to pot for experimental purposes is severely restricted, apparently more so than some other and worse drugs. This has greatly hindered our understanding of what it does, how it does it, atc, especially in long-term studies.
Mokele

altho many countries including the U.S. have done studies on marijuana, the U.S. gov't. doesn't make it easy for common folks to find the information. a good source for documents on the experiments is www.jackherer.com jack has done all the leg work getting a hold of federal documents. i have seen several articals in JAMA over the years on med. studies of marijuana. peace pam:embarass:

[jdurg]

Legalization of marijuana has been a sticky issue for quite some time now. (No pun intended). The problem with the legalization of it is that if it suddenly made legal, you will see a HUGE rise in the number of users and at this point in time not enough research has been done to conclusively say 'it's perfectly safe' or 'it's horribly bad'. As much as many people might be inclined to think, there is a large section of the population whose only reason for not using it is because it's illegal. Throw in the huge number of people who do it already, and the number of people who would suddenly become marijuana users would skyrocket. Now if we find out that the stuff is horrible and shouldn't be legal, you'll have a very difficult situation on your hands. (Something akin to prohibition in the 1930's I believe).

Now there are aspects of marijuana that are known. Number one is that it does increase one's appetite. This has been proven and is a reason why chemically produced THC is used in many chemotheraphy regimens. (Look up information on the drugs dronabinol and/or marinol). So the US Government does acknowledge the medical benefits of THC. Another proven fact about marijuana is that it will affect how your memory works. This doesn't mean that using it will make it so you can't remember anything, but it does mean that you'll need to work harder to keep your memory. Those who don't seem to have trouble with their memory simply have found a new pathway in their brain to use. Those who do have trouble have not been able to do that.

Flat out legalizing marijuana would just be downright irresponsible. Saying 'it's illegal and will never be legalized' without doing massive research on it is also irresponsible. Taking time and researching what it does, then slowly legalizing it on a 'licensed basis*' would be a better thing to do.


(* By 'licensed', I would mean that those of legal drinking age (21) would be given a license to use marijuana. This license would require that usage be limited to their residence and not while operating a moving vehicle or on public property. If one is caught using pot in a public area, or while driving a car, then the license would be revoked and posession of pot would be just as illegal as it is now. If you're responsible, then you can smoke pot all you'd like.)

[aj47]

Can i just add something, THC is not the only chemical responsible for creating a high, there are quite a few. This is why different strains create different effects as there are varying amounts of the physcoactive chemicals.

[TATER]

I understand that it has been over a year since the last posting but was searching the web and found this forum and felt the need to add something.
1st the comment that all drugs are bad. I watch tv alot (a horrid thing I know) and i see drug commercials all day long are they all bad too. if you have high blood pressure and have tried diet and exercise but still can't get it low enough "too bad, drugs and bad"
2nd number of deaths per year that result directly or primarily from the following causes nationwide according to the World almanacs, LIfe Insurance actuarial rates and 20 years of surgeon general's reports.
asprin (including deliberate overdose)180-1000
caffeine(from stress, ulcers and triggering irregular heartbeats ,etc)1000-10000
illicicit drug overdose (deliberate or accidental from all illegal drugs)3800-5200
marijuana 0
marijuana users aslo have the same or lower incidence of murders and highway deaths and accidents than the general non marijuana using population according to crancer study ,uclaand mary other studies thru out the world for names of studies just ask
did u see that on a shirt called h.e.m.p.???(help eliminate marijuana prohibition)my brothers got that shirt, anyway,it's been proven that drivers who are intoxicated with alcohol are 80% more likely to crash than a person intoxicated with marijuana

[bombus]

Marijuana contains a mild hallucinogen. Hallucinogens 'diminish' the Ego, which we use to interpret the world. The Ego is essentially a filter which gives 'meaning' to our experiences.

Once are Egos are diminished we filter less of what we experience and this makes us more open to new ideas, and more sensitive in many ways to what goes on around us (although marijuana also makes us slightly tired as well, which lessens this effect).

Unfortunately, it also makes us more open to ideas such as paranoia, which is the main hazard of marijuana, and in fact most hallucinogens.

Once the door to paranoia is open it's hard to shut again.

Thusly I don't touch the stuff anymore! Also, it's usually smoked so can you lung cancer!

[ParanoiA]

Once the door to paranoia is open it's hard to shut again.

Yeah, cuz I just sit in the doorway and drool on the floor...

Seriously though, that's interesting about how it diminishes the ego. I had always thought of it as slowing down the firing between neurons, causing a "dumbed down" effect. I don't know where I read that, or if I just dreamed it...or if I made it up after getting high once.

[Moontanman]

Ask anybody who smokes weed and they will tell you they like nature. The stereotypical stoner hippies always want to save animals and forests. I began smoking about 3 years ago on a casual basis and since I have taken an intrest in biology and evolution and I think it is because of weed. So you have to admit that there is something in weed that makes you like and appreciate nature.

So there is something in the chemical THC that when the brain gets high on it over a period of time it slowing makes you like nature. But is this just a fluke of evolution that this plant gets this unusual chemical or is there something behind evolution...like a god.

So how does science explain the evolution of THC in marijuana without saying from random mutations when this plants evolution had a goal. Humans are smart and destructive so marijuana get us high while slowing making our minds appreciate and like nature. And it makes us peaceful. Maybe nature has the key to world peace.

The only thing I know of that pots increases my love of is good music, Doritos, and chocolate!

It's been many years but "I still recall the juke box hall where the music played"

[blazarwolf]

SUPA STONER TO THE RESCUE! looks like this thread got off track, let me answer some of the original questions presented. :D


So how does science explain the evolution of THC in marijuana without saying from random mutations when this plants evolution had a goal.

I guess the explanation of THC would be that it's a form of protection. If you were to start grazing on marijuana, I think you'd feel pretty ill.

I'd like to come back to the original question guys: Why THC in plants?
My theory: Plants develope different kinds of poisons, which are able to kill animals, who eat those plants. THC might have had a bad influence on animals like maybe certain Insects. This of course is just a theory of mine.


Besides, in some animals, such as rabbits and canines, THC is poisonous and lethal in what would be considered small or moderate doses for humans.

Hmm... I think the anti-freeze theory is interesting and very probable. However, why would an annual plant (non-perrenial) need to stay alive through the winter or cold weather?


1. Hemp's native land is dry, and at some elevation... the crystals (not just thc) aid to prevent transpiration, aswell as provide some UV protection.

2. The crystals are sticky and aid defense to insects (traps them to die)

3. The crystals are sticky (and infact grow on what becomes the seed pod) and aid in catching male pollin.

4. The idea that it evolved as a poision is far from true. Animals are attracted to the smell, and attracted back to consume more by the Reward (good vibes:D) The idea that THC is toxic is wrong, toxic level is 50% of body wieght pure THC (ive always wonderd how they new the chimp didnt die of the infusion, 50% body wieght infusion of saline could easily kill)

5. Mainpoint on #4 is its a dispertion stratigy... Hempseed is very tough and passes through the digestive tract of most grazers realitivly unharmed... The secondary point to #4 is the bud is low caloric.. that is why its very oderfull and Requires additional reward motivation.


As for Azurepheniox... I wish i was here when you were active (sexualy..jk:eyebrow:). I too have had many life expirences. Learning from such and being candide about them is indeed part of growing up. Learning from books, about other people, how your words will be interperted and how to shape them properly is just as important (weeds DISTROYED my mind... its now just a run-on sentence).

If you were tackling any other drug it would have been much easier... The most depressing fact about it all is this. There are 2 psychoactive cannibiods, there are dozens more not so. Cannibiods have very unique effects on the body (to much to go into). The non-pschoactive chemicals have more promise in medicine then medical marijuana. Criminilization of marijuana has held back the studies ALOT... it wasent but a few years ago they discoverd the endogenous receptor site...

You do sound a bit like a cokehead, its probaby just cuz your young... It was very insightfull to say sex is like "fight or flight"... its actually better, its also "feed and breed" (sympathetic/parasympathetic)... It also strongly activates dopamine reward pathways, so does cheese, rollercoasters, drugs, back rubs, shopping... anything that makes you happy. Cocaine activates these pathways and plays with dopamine more than any other drug. That is, to be addicted to something that makes you happy is closest to cocaine, but everyone is addicted to being happy... Except monks who strive to remove this.

Check out my new insight, just came in from outerspace....

The munchies seriously helps the dispertion stratigy.... Its not uncommon for plants to use that version. One of the benifits of this is the manuer it is dispersed with (nuetrients)... BUT THE MUNCHIES.... thats alot of crap (nuetrients):D

15 minutes later EDIT #2..... I also realized some of this is evidence for it being somewhat harmless, Atleast for a rabbit that eats it... Doing direct harm wouldent be very symboitic... like a flower that gets a honeybee so drunk he cant fly home...

2 Hours later EDIT #3... I forgot that THC doesent pass well by itself into the blood via the digestive route. Digestive tracts of grazers are different, not sure how it would effect this.

[DrP]

,it's been proven that drivers who are intoxicated with alcohol are 80% more likely to crash than a person intoxicated with marijuana

We've had this out before - I agree. It's still not safe (but driving is not safe anyway - even when completely sober) but drink driving is WAY WAY worse. It's because you feel less confident and take less risks (even though your reaction times arn't impared that much) - were as with drink - you feel way MORE confident and take more risks, even though this time your reactions are SERIOUSLY impared.

PS - NO_ONE IS SAYING TOKING AND DRIVING IS SAFE HERE - JUST MUCH SAFER THAN DRINK DRIVING FOR THE RESONS STATED ABOVE.

[BlackPower]

weed is good! Now i'm in the mood to smoke. Thanks!