Energy

[carluk1974]

As there is a finite speed (speed of light), is there a finite amount of energy?

[-Demosthenes-]

If there was it would be alot, I'd to know what the smart people think too. I'm exicted.

[YT2095]

if you consider the Universe to be Finite then the answer would indeed be yes :)

[-Demosthenes-]

So it depends of the finite-ness(for the lack of a better word) of the universe? So if it is infinite, so is energy? makes sense.

[Sayonara³]

Does zero point energy deal with infinte energetics, or did I just dream that?

[YT2095]

I`ll not comment on zero point energy, I`m not sufficiently convinced about it`s viability as a source. but even so, if the Universe were finite, then I should imagine so would that be also, providing you`re from the school of the Big Bang, all energies would have been created from that point onwards. (I`m no expert) I should imagine that the Big Bang however many nano seconds into it, was THE single most energetic source ever. and from there would stem the remains as we know now :)

[-Demosthenes-]

Couldn't there have been other big bangs in other places. It dosn't make sense that is would end. It can't just end? right? What would be there aafter it ended, a void??

[YT2095]

Cold Death plain and simple.
the Current theory is that the universe is expanding and there`s not enough matter to hold it together, we`ll just drift off into that "Void" and freeze to probably 0 kelvin.
I don`t think it`s anything to worry about though, there`s like several Kazillion years before that happens :)

[-Demosthenes-]

-273 degrees celcius! That is cold, as cold as possible if I'm not mistaken. That's something to look forward to. :D

[YT2095]

yeah, it`ll be a welcome releif after having our sun going red giant state and frying your butt!

[dave]

YT2095 said in post # (http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=36505#post36505):
and freeze to probably 0 kelvin.

Not if the second law (edit: maybe first? can't remember) of thermodynamics has anything to do with it :-p

[-Demosthenes-]

Wouldn't the energy have to go somewhere? So there would me some heat right?

[dave]

You can't cool something to absolute zero. I've never done much thermodynamics to be honest, but the reasoning is something along the lines of not being able to remove all energy from the molecules of whatever you're trying to freeze.

[greg1917]

Indeed - things have been supercooled to tiny fractions of a degree above 0K, but the jury is out on whether freezing to precisely 0K is even possible. Some scientists believe matter would simply collaps in on itself.

[iglak]

greg1917 said in post # (http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=36645#post36645):
Indeed - things have been supercooled to tiny fractions of a degree above 0K, but the jury is out on whether freezing to precisely 0K is even possible. Some scientists believe matter would simply collaps in on itself.
that's a good idea actually. to make something 0 K, all atomic and subatomic movement needs to stop (all electrons, quarks, whatever else there is). and from the attractive forces between every subatomic molecule, concievably they would "fall" into eachother. but then that's just my somewhat uneducated speculation.

[YT2095]

I was sure all particles stopped moving and an "Ideal gas" would vanish. but I`m equaly sure the nuclear forces would still be in play?
as in an electron would maintain it`s distance from the nucleus although it wouldn`t be orbiting per se, otherwise it sounds very much like you`re making the beginnings of a singularity from a Black Hole (and fairly sure THAT can`t be right)?

[mossoi]

I believe that the nuclear energy would remain even though the heat energy was removed. There is a lot more nuclear energy than thermal energy in a body so overall the majority of the energy would still be present even at 0K.

[Radical Edward]

Sayonara³ said in post # (http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=36496#post36496):
Does zero point energy deal with infinte energetics, or did I just dream that?

you aren't dreaming.

[aman]

If we see the universe in more than our generally accepted dimensions like in string theory, it would make sense that a zero point energy in the dimensions we realize would not mean a zero point in all of them. There might still be a lot of things happening at incredible energies.
Just aman

[Tom Mattson]

I think all you guys are missing the point of the original post. You are talking about thermodynamics when you should be talking about Doubly Special Relativity.

carluk1974 said in post # (http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=36464#post36464):
As there is a finite speed (speed of light), is there a finite amount of energy?

carluk is asking if there is an upper limit to energy in the same sense that there is an upper limit to speed.

The answer is, "that seems to be the case". That is, some recent observations of cosmic rays seem to indicate an upper limit on energy, and this has led to the postulation of the theory of Doubly Special Relativity by Giovanni Amelino-Camelia.

Here's an introduction, straight from Amelino-Camelia himself.

Doubly Special Relativity (http://xxx.lanl.gov/PS_cache/gr-qc/pdf/0207/0207049.pdf)

edit: fixed url tags

[psi20]

I imagine what happened is that people from the past-- i mean before the Big Bang as we know it happened-- in another universe realized that they were going to freeze so they collapsed the universe into a singularity. Then a new universe began.

It's just a little story I made up for fun. :)

[Sayonara³]

The Jesus discussion is now here:
http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2977