JFK Assassination headshot

[rebeldog]

Fact= The fatal shot that killed Kennedy caused his head to go back and to the left. I cannot fathom how a shot from the back could do this. I know there are other factors but using Newtonian law alone common sence tells us that his head must move in the direction the projectile was going. A bullet travelling at 1300mph that hits someone in the head must be the over-riding factor in which direction the head will move. What do you all think? Surely something with such force must have the greatest effect in determining which direction the target will move?

[YT2095]

only if it was dead central, if it was to one side or the other, it would try to push the head aside (like balls on a pool table). the velocity of the projectile would also create a vortex inside the head as the brain would liquify in the bullets wake, that and whiplash effect would be responsible for the backwards movement. I`ve seen it wax block tests and water test, the bottle will actualy seem to jump forwards towards the direction of the bullet, subsonic rounds don`t exhibit this effect as markedly. and the shock wave propogation is entirely different too.

[Duke]

The front of his face explodes open to. Theres a high probability that this is the exit wound.

[rebeldog]

Ive heard the vortex argument but I would think that this would take time to counter-act the momentum caused by the bullet velocity (when the bullet energy is spent) and cause opposite movement or none at all.
If arguing for a front right shooter the violent head movement shown in the Zappruder film appears to me to solidify this argument. Common sence is a great thing and peoples heads are not water bottles. To say that Newtonian physics must over-ride over-ambitious science (which only applys in the minority of cases) is correct. The head moved consistant to a projectile hitting from the front right.

[YT2095]

at those velocities, it may as well be a water bottle :(

it`s a bit like using a shaped charge in reverse, where the parabola isn`t concave it`s convex, the wave front is almost like an inverted carrot shape, and yes it will quite easily liquify fleshy matter. I understand it all seems very "contra-Intuitive" sure, but it does obey newtonian motion :)

[Muffin]

I watched a video on it in 7th grade, and they showed an example of a bullet hitting a watermelon. The melon fell back, not in the direction the bullet is going. It makes plenty of sense to me, cuz like, if you push a teeter totter down on one side, the other side goes up, or if you're holding a pencil, and push on the bottom, the top will fall back. It's all kind of like that.

And does anyone know when the documents will be unclassified? I predict a huge investigation when they are, and lots of TV specials :).

[jordan]

What do teeter-totters have to do with this? Are you saying if the neck moves forward quickly, the top of the head will move in the opposite direction?

[blike]

Duke said in post #3 (http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=27453#post27453):
The front of his face explodes open to. Theres a high probability that this is the exit wound.

Actually, looking at the autopsy photos (available online, check celebritymorgue.com) it looks like the BACK of his head blew out, not the front.

[KHinfcube22]

What I find funny about the whole assanination thing is was that is was never the one they thought it was...It was two guys standing across the street, who made the gun out of parts they kept in a tool box...There was a mute who saw the whole thing, but couldn't say...Mainly cause he was a mute...And the two guys worked for the goverment...They wacked their own guy...Probably wouldn't go along with the lalilulelo...Oh well...

[Muffin]

jordan said in post #7 (http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=27531#post27531):
What do teeter-totters have to do with this? Are you saying if the neck moves forward quickly, the top of the head will move in the opposite direction?

Go ahead and try it. Hit yourself in the back of the neck, and see which way your head moves. I admit, the teeter totter thing was kinda out there, but it sort of explains what I mean. Oh, maybe it was a terrible reference, sorry. :-)

[jordan]

It was a good analogy. I wasn't aware he was hit in the neck, that's all. If he wasn't, it wouldn't make sense, but then again I haven't seen too much about it to know.

[rebeldog]

He was hit in the neck, but then a few seconds later in the head. 2 separate bullets. I don't even know what teeter-totters are. I say a projectile at a speed of 1300mph hits and causes substantial movement of the head. I believe that a vortex of brain matter, blood etc, that shot out of the head, would not have anywhere near the force to counter-act a high powered bullet. For me the case has always been closed on a single assassin, someone took a shot from the front and Kennedys head movement shows this. Anti-conspiricy theorists have always had trouble explaining that head movement. Its the one real area where their arguement breaks down. There have been lots of people who say Oswald acted alone over the years and some have nearly convinced me. But then they clutch at straws in the case of the head movement.

[KHinfcube22]

rebeldog said in post #12 (http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=27675#post27675):
There have been lots of people who say Oswald acted alone over the years and some have nearly convinced me.
DOESN'T ANYONE LISTEN?...It was not oswald...It has been proven...Oswald was not a good shot, and that shot would have been hard for an expert sharpshooter...There was an eye witness who saw two guys across the street...I, and a few other skeptics, believe they worked for the goverment...It was MGS2 all over again...

[rebeldog]

KHinfcube22 said in post #13 (http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=27677#post27677):

DOESN'T ANYONE LISTEN?...It was not oswald...It has been proven...Oswald was not a good shot,

Who has proven this? The answer is it has never been proven! Oswald was a tremendous marksman. That is proved by his marine records which show his abilities with a rifle were exellent. There is overwhelming evidence Oswald shot from behind. There is very good evidence he did not fire the fatal head shot.

[wolfson]

Some facts:

(1) Oswald did not aim to shoot JFK he aimed at The general, the bullet went through the general and into JFK.

(2) Oswald was killed by the owner of the strip club who was friendly with the police, thats how he got the access.

(3) The general was an anti-communist (anti-Marxist), as Oswald was a beloved Communist (even lived in Russia), the general was the target, oswald had even tried to kill the general a few months earlier at the General's home, the shot penetrated the window but not the general.

[YT2095]

I`m not discounting your points at all, but can you cite your source for these Facts?

and on your point #2 yeah, I`ve heard rumors to that effect also.

[Pinch Paxton]

None of these theories sound right to me. If Oswald was there with a rifle, and also two other guys, that means that there were two assasination attempts on the same day. That's possible, but it still means that Oswald was guilty for attempting to assasinate the president, therefore his arrest was the correct policy. If his assasination attempt was on this general guy, then he could have chose a time when the General was an easier target. Generals are not usually surrounded by body guards, and can be shot alone for some parts of the day.

This tipping of the head due to splash back from liquid, sounds possible. I think it is a valid point.

Pincho.

[rebeldog]

Oswald did try to shoot the general (general Walker) but this was a completely seperate incident 6 months prior to the murder of JFK. The general wasn't even present. So to say that the bullet went through the general and then JFK is complete and utter rubbish. I am not saying that Oswald made an assassination attempt whilst another seperate attempt was being made 100 yards down the road (that would be ridiculous). I am saying Oswald was part of this conspiricy and shot from behind. 'Jack Ruby' shot Oswald 2 days after JFK, live on TV and was convicted of murder and died in jail.

[bigjnorman]

he was shot from someone hiding under the street in a sewage drain as his car passed by, this was the head-exploding wound, he was also shot from the front, even though the gov's initial report denies this they later released another story confirming it.
according to the history chanel this is

[swansont]

wolfson said in post #15 (http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=27715#post27715):
Some facts:

(1) Oswald did not aim to shoot JFK he aimed at The general, the bullet went through the general and into JFK.

(2) Oswald was killed by the owner of the strip club who was friendly with the police, thats how he got the access.

(3) The general was an anti-communist (anti-Marxist), as Oswald was a beloved Communist (even lived in Russia), the general was the target, oswald had even tried to kill the general a few months earlier at the General's home, the shot penetrated the window but not the general.

What General? Pres. and Mrs. Kennedy were in the back seat, and Gov. and Mrs. Connoly were in the seat in front of them.

[Duke]

ALRIGHT ALREADY! IT WAS ME!!!

[YT2095]

Oh good greif! and this chat was going So well!

[jordan]

haha

[wolfson]

Gov Conally used to be a general, he was a anti marxist, there was an attempt by Oswald to kill him a few months prior to the assassination of Gov Conally and accidental shoting of Pres. JFK, i have studied this in my forensic class, due to the recent use of forensic computer technology that created a full 3d vision of the surrounding area. The conclusive evidence proved that all shots were fired from the book/publishing office, where Oswald had been working for approx 6 months. He had been seen that day carrying a suspicious case, that was later analysed and found to contain ballistic evidence (powder from weapon). The reason for the know shot throgh (bullet throgh Gov Conally to JFK) is due to the camera which showed that both men immediately after Gov was hit take affensive action on bullet entries, Gov held his chest whilst JFK held his neck at the same time. When watching the video you can clearly see that the insert A point in Gov, by means of jacket inflation (white area of shirst balloned up as bullet hit). Gov then fell down in the car, at that exact moment Oswald shot again and Inset point B hit JFK in the head. This was proven using computerised forensic technology that the B came directly from the same area as A. Thus concluded evidence that Oswald did indeed take the shots. The reason he wanted to do this on that day was that he had been un-noticed prior to this case, even with his Marxist action for cuba. That day he left money for his wife and a letter, his wife is sure to this day that her husband did kill JFK.

[wolfson]

Sorry he wasnt a general a lieutenant commander as my facts recall.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Erm, I know what really happened. I know a former Secret Service agent who said this:
When he heard the first shot, he turned around and pulled his gun, so he was looking at the president (who was in a car behind him) but the gun was faulty and it went off, killing JFK.

[Radical Edward]

it was colonel mustard in the dining room with the candlestick.

[JaKiri]

JFK (the film) has much to answer for.

It makes up evidence for a conspiracy in the shooting itself.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

I saw a show talking about how there was a bullet hole (entry going in the car) in the windshield. They took the windshield to Detroit and destroyed it. Oh, and the Smithsonian was keeping his brain, and that would have all the bullet evidence, but they lost the brain!

[JaKiri]

I saw a show talking about how all the evidence pointed to a lone gunman. As it had proper pathologists and the like on it, and was made by the BBC, I trust it rather more.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

But the one I saw was on the History Channel.
Oh, and the files about him are screwed up, saying someone said "There was one guy" but acually he didn't. And the stereoscopic pictures of his head after the shooting look modified because parts aren't stereoscpic.

[Radical Edward]

MrL_JaKiri said in post #30 (http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=31538#post31538):
Iloan gunman.

dear me. their appears to be a spelling mistake in they're someware.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Dear me. There appears to be a spelling mistake in that "they're" is incorrect. "there" is correct.

[Radical Edward]

Well one out of five ain't too bad.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

AIN'T? AAAAAAAAAAH! Make that two out of six.

[JaKiri]

Cap'n Refsmmat said in post #33 (http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=31570#post31570):
Dear me. There appears to be a spelling mistake in that "they're" is incorrect. "there" is correct.

Except it says 'their'

And Duncan, bless his little cotten socks, appears to be telling me that there's a spelling mistake in my post if you edit my post to have a spelling mistake in.

Are we following the Bertrand Russell guide to rigor?

[Sayonara³]

Mark, it was in there to start with.

Refsmmat, go look up "irony".

Any more of these shenanigans and you'll all be going to bed without supper.

PS - "Cotton".

[JaKiri]

I was confused because he typo'd my mispelling :(

[Sayonara³]

Rad managed to get both "their" and "they're" in "there".

:D

[Radical Edward]

MrL_JaKiri said in post #38 (http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=31612#post31612):
I was confused because he typo'd my mispelling :(

didn't delete all the redundant parts of the post, is that a typo?

[JaKiri]

Radical Edward said in post #40 (http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=31616#post31616):


didn't delete all the redundant parts of the post, is that a typo?

Of course it's a typographical error you buffoon!

[wolfson]

I had already concluded this in previous post. As for the C.I.A. man shooting the pres. the only word that springs to mind is deluded!!!!! (note evidence shows No CIA agent shooting president!!!!)

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Not cia, SS. Did you hear me say there was a bullet hole in the windsheild of the car? And it was an entry hole? And then they took it and destroyed it? Sounds conspiracy to me!

[Radical Edward]

MrL_JaKiri said in post #41 (http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=31617#post31617):


Of course it's a typographical error you buffoon!

it wuz the CIA that did it because they think that we are too close to uncovering the kennedy conspiriacy.

[Gampin]

According to a US News (1990s) article I read, his head movement might be because of a reflex that was made when the bullet struck some nerve.

Something like that.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

But... nerves aren't stimulated by pressure... Reflexes hit a sensor, not a nerve.

[JaKiri]

Cap'n Refsmmat said in post #43 (http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=31732#post31732):
Not cia, SS. Did you hear me say there was a bullet hole in the windsheild of the car? And it was an entry hole? And then they took it and destroyed it? Sounds conspiracy to me!

Dude, the CIA ARE a secret service.

Unless you mean the Nazi Stormtroopers.

[superchump]

Given that the bullet was moving at supersonic speeds, it would have entered his skull like a hot knife through butter. But as the bullet passed through the skull it would have set up a pressure wave that would continue to travel forward. Now as the bullet moving through his brain it is liquifying the tissue. Given that is was a rifle bullet that was not ment to balloon out (it passed through the head/seat and logged into a person up front), it would have created a small hole, not a large gap (not yet at least). Through vacuum pressure, liquified brain would have followed the bullet out in a jet causing quit a bit of thrust in the process (equate it to those special tank shells that fire through a tank and suck everything out not bolted down). But the pressure wave is still traveling, abit slower than the bullet, so now his head opens up like a watermellon as the wave dispells energy. Given the entry of the bullet, how would his head move? Back and to the left.

[Sayonara³]

Conspiracy theories without evidence belong in the pseudoscience forum.

[wolfson]

As again if I must repeat there is NO, NONE, NIL evidence that the CIA/SS men/man shot the president!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

You should see the History Channel special then... Though I doubt the guy admitting it because there was no car in front of him! Unless the video I saw didn't include it.

[JaKiri]

I'm putting an end to this